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  1. #11
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    The Agfa/Ansco 70 formula is the same as Ilford ID-13, for graphics use it doesn't give the same edge effects as Agfa/Ansco 79/Kodak D85.

    Ian

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Ullsmith View Post
    Any words on shelf life or tray life of home brews
    versus the proprietaries? Or do you mix this
    stuff only prior to use?
    Wall's is a snap to mix at time of use though it
    can be made up as a concentrate. Longest shelf
    life will result from mixing it A-B; A the hydroquinone
    and sulfite and B the carbonate. For myself tray life is
    not an issue as I use all chemistry very dilute one-shot.

    I believe formalin etc compounds are present for the
    purpose of increasing the developer's tray life. Those
    compounds combine with the excess of sulfite present.
    The complex formed twixt formalin etc and sulfite
    maintains the low level of free sulfite needed for
    infectious development. As it is depleted it
    becomes again available. Sulfite acts as a
    preservative and retards infectious
    development.

    Via the Google search for, Wall's Normal Hydroquinone
    and material at unblinkingeye a few additional Wall's
    type developers can be found.

    That other formulations of the Wall's type or
    formulations of more complex nature do vary
    the results I've no doubt. Dan

  3. #13
    Fraxinus's Avatar
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    Home Brewed Lith

    Quote Originally Posted by nze View Post
    Hi

    I use Ansco 70 formula dilution from 1+1+6 to 1+1+20 with good result
    Just today I mixed some Ansco 70 for my first foray into lith printing in over fifteen years.
    Initial tests look promising on Adox Nuance Grade 3 with a dilution of 1+1+19 at 22 deg C., development around 11 minutes.

    Years ago I was using Kodak Transtar TP5 in Kodalith, it seemed so much easier then!
    Roy
    ----------------
    Real Photographs | Weeping Ash U.K.
    ------------------------------------------------------
    "We cannot compete with those English fellows."
    - overheard by Alfred Stieglitz at the Joint Exhibition, New York City, 1891.

  4. #14
    Mike Wilde's Avatar
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    D-85 success

    I finally found some time to play with lith again. This time I brewed up d-85 in one part, using paraformadehyde by mass, in lieu of earlier efforts of formalin by volume.

    I was fiddling with calibrating some old lith film to do some half tone screen work.

    By the end of the night I had two good 8x10's, and a whole ton of little test strips of step wedges that I used to figure out:
    -the speed of the lith film,
    -the gamma of the developer ( about 1.5 stops from clear to black at 2' 68F),
    -and the calibration points that I needed to set up an old dial calculator, Q-15 that Kodak made to aid in doing half tone screens.

    Since I was using negatives in an enlarger, rather than reflective copy in a process camera, I just set the calculator dials up to deal with dynamic range of 1.3. Base exposure was worked out to 50mm lens for 35mm, F4, projected image 8"x12", 60 seconds.

    Now when I do lith film half tones, I measure no film light intensity with my analyser, then the highlight and shadow density. The calculator dial tells me how much flash, screen, and no screen exposure I need to get a good halftone. All of this mad work is leading to a future screen printing experiment.

    The D-85 was getting a little sluggish in its action and dark in the tray by the end of the night, but all up it stayed acceptibly active for me for about 3 hours in the open tray. This is a lot longer than A+B lith mixes that I have used in the past.

  5. #15
    nze
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    Roy

    I keep on working with the ansco 70 , I use it at 1+1+19 as you. It also work at stronger dilution but need to be prepared 1 hours before and some fog paper in it. At 1+1+19 dilution I get good result promptly. I also work at an higher temperature 28°C to get a 4-5 min dev .

    with the 1+1+9 dilution I already develop 30 print in a liter, I could do more but just need to stop. I think I could go to 40 easily/

    Best
    Chris Nze
    me Apug Portfolio
    Me web page

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by dancqu View Post
    At Google search for, wall's normal hydroquinone. Lots
    of formulas. I chanced upon a mix very similar to Wall's.
    No more than hydroquinone, sodium sulfite, and sodium
    carbonate. Ratios in that order 1:5:5. Multiply by 2,
    make that in grams, and dissolve it all in 1 liter
    of H2O. I've not tried that exact formula as
    my by chance brew deviated some. Good
    results in as few as 8 minutes. Dan
    At what dilution do you use Wall's for lith printing?
    I'm just beginning to experiment with lith print, and was searching for a lith developer that I could make from what I have on the shelf. Wall's seemed to be the one. I tried it yesterday on Ilford FB WT in dilutions 1+10, 1+20 and 1+40. I do not have any experience whatsoever with lith printing - this is my first shot at it - but I didn't get anything that even remotely looked like infectious development to me. What I did get was eventually very flat prints with what looked to me as high levels of fog. Dev time between 5-8 minutes.

    What do I do wrong? Wrong dilution of dev? (I used 130 grams sodium carbonate rather that 100 grams potassium carbonate). Wrong paper? (exposure 2-4 stops more than a normal print)

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by anyhuus View Post
    At what dilution do you use Wall's for lith printing?
    What do I do wrong? Wrong dilution of dev? (I used
    130 grams sodium carbonate rather that 100 grams
    potassium carbonate). Wrong paper? (exposure
    2-4 stops more than a normal print)
    I'll have to check my records. BTW, you went the
    wrong way with the carbonate; less of the sodium,
    about 85 grams.

    Why such a big batch for starters? One thing to
    remember about published lith formulas, they are
    designed for commercial FILM processing. Dan

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by dancqu View Post
    I'll have to check my records. BTW, you went the
    wrong way with the carbonate; less of the sodium,
    about 85 grams.

    Why such a big batch for starters? One thing to
    remember about published lith formulas, they are
    designed for commercial FILM processing. Dan
    I wasn't thinking too much - just followed the recipy for 2x1L stock solution.
    Shelf life should be good, and if I get it to work, then I have the lith dev. I need for a while.

    Thanks for correction me on the carbonate concentration. Do you think the wrong concentration of Carbonate could be the reason that I don't get the expected results? Since carbonate is the only chemical in solution B, it should be easy to correct by simply use less B when making work solutions.

    I consulted Tim Rudman's book regarding dilution, and he says 2-3 times the dilution recommended for film. Typically 1+1+18. Having no other guidance that this, that's what I started with when using Wall's. (Then again: I don't know the normal dilution for Wall's for film...).

    Are you using normal dev. temperatures (e.g. 20 centigrades) or a "hot" developer 35-40 centigrdaes) when using Wall's?

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by anyhuus View Post
    What I did get was eventually very flat prints with
    what looked to me as high levels of fog. Dev time
    between 5-8 minutes.

    What do I do wrong? Wrong dilution of dev?
    Wrong paper?
    Very flat prints. So far so good. Lith development
    is peculiar. Within the first few or several minutes
    the print will take on a very flat look. That with all
    going as it should. Slowly the print will continue to
    darken. After some time, perhaps as little as five or
    as much as twenty or more minutes, infectious
    development will set in.

    Development then proceeds rapidly; contrast builds.
    A point is reached where the print must be 'snatched'
    and development quickly halted. The snatch point is
    most easily seen when working with Graded paper
    as a much higher level of darkroom lighting
    is permitted. Because Lith printing makes
    possible considerable contrast control
    a single Grade of paper will cover a
    wide range of grades.

    Now fog may be a matter of concern BUT be sure it
    extends to the non-exposed portions of the print prior
    to adding potassium bromide. Some papers need the
    bromide and some do not.

    So you compounded A and B. Let me know the exact
    formula and volumes so that some dilution suggestions
    can be made.

    Try the following off the cuff suggestion. I test with 5x7.
    If you have a 5x7 tray prepare 125ml at 1:40 dilution.
    Allow about 16 minutes. If contrast has yet to build
    and you wish quicker results try 1:30. Let us know
    how it goes along with the formula info. Dan

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