Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,924   Posts: 1,556,745   Online: 1022
      
Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Minnesota
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    14,366
    Images
    299

    New (to me) Nikor 4x5 tank

    OK, so I ran a negative through my (new to me) Nikor 4x5 daylight tank. It was a negative I had already developed successfully in a slosher tray, so I didn't really need it for anything else.

    I practiced loading the somewhat awkward reels for a while, and then decided to have a go with one negative. I ended up with some real problems, and wanted to post the question here what might have happened.
    When I develop Tri-X 120 roll film, I use 13 minutes at the 1+1+100 agitation, at 70*F, agitating for the first minute, and then two inversions every three minutes. It works like a charm for me. So I figured I'd do the same with this single sheet of film. The tank holds 1250ml so I filled it to the brim, poured just a little bit out, and started agitating. I used water for stop bath, and in usual manner I used tested (film strip clearing time) fixer for three minutes with constant agitation. The neg ended up with some really clear agitation issues, as well as marks from the stainless steel guides inside the reel.
    What am I doing wrong, what kind of agitation regimen do I need with these daylight tanks?

    The bright part of the negative is over-developed of course. That's the part that was at the outer 'edge' of the spiral reel. I wonder if that had anything to do with it, or if that was a light leak or something... Anyway, it's pretty ugly...

    Thanks,

    - Thomas
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2007-09_Superior01.jpg  
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    New York
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    222
    Images
    42
    I have used one of these for a while - perhaps the problem is due to only one sheet of film being in the tank? I have not had any problems like yours - but I usually do from 6 to 12 sheets at a time. I use an inversion once every minute for about 5 seconds when I am developing. Also, did you load the sheet with the film emulsion "facing" the center?

  3. #3
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Minnesota
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    14,366
    Images
    299
    Yes, I did load it with the emulsion side 'in'. I should probably inspect the negative and see if the 'dirt' that is a little bit above the horizontal center is on the film support side or the emulsion side.
    What difference do you think the amount of film sheets in the tank would make?

    Thanks for your reply.

    - Thomas
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  4. #4
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawai'i
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    17,349
    Images
    20
    You've got agitation and fill problems.

    First off, did you look at the instruction sheet? If not, I've posted it in this thread--

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum43/3...film-tank.html

    Do you have the metal band? If not, your sheet may have slipped out during processing, and that could cause the extra density at the edge.

    As for the blotchiness, it looks like you filled the tank too slowly initially. With pyro, which is prone to uneven staining, or with developers that have a really short developing time, I do the initial fill in the dark with the lid off, and then proceed as I normally would with a daylight tank with the lid on and lights on for the remaining steps. You don't say what developer you used, but since you say 1+1+100, I'm guessing its some variety of pyro. If you want to be even more even, then fill the tank first, drop the reel in, and then put on the lid, though I haven't found this necessary with PMK or ABC--I put the reel in, fill quickly, replace the lid, and turn on the lights.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Downers Grove Illinois
    Posts
    1,052
    Yes, it is a slow fill. I think it takes 36 oz to cover the film. Use NO MORE. The liguid has to move.

    Lower the loaded reel in, pull up with a finger in the center. twist, lower, up& down once more. That is the first agitation. Now add the lid and small cap. Agitate by inversion 2/10 sec every minute. Hold it lid down long enough for the liquid to run into the cap, then rightside up. Repeat.

    Pour out is far less critical so you can do the remaining steps with the lid on. Allow 25 sec for pour out.

  6. #6
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Minnesota
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    14,366
    Images
    299
    To clarify and maybe explain some of the problems...
    1. I use Pyrocat-MC, my standard developer.
    2. There was no metal strap to come with it. Any idea of how a rubberband would work?
    3. I filled the tank all the way full. And then poured some out. I estimate it took me 20 seconds to fill. I practiced this and found that if I tilt the can with the large portion of the opening facing down, it goes faster. It was slower to pour out.
    4. I pre-wet the film for however long it took to mix the chemistry. About 3 min maybe? This is what I always do with 120 roll film in my paterson tanks.
    5. I followed exactly the same procedure as I do with roll film. I think I will shoot five or six sheets of the same subject matter for practice.

    I will try to agitate every minute instead. I thought that since it works like a charm for roll film with once every three minutes it would work for sheet film too. Oh well, we live and learn. I'm just looking for a solution that does not require electricity, or a motor of any kind. Usually they will break, while a stainless steel tank probably will outlast me. I like tray developing but get so many scratches and dings on the negs, even after practicing a whole year I cannot get scratch free negatives. And that's with FP4 and Tri-X film. Drives me nuts...

    Thanks to everyone helping out so far.

    - Thomas
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  7. #7
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawai'i
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    17,349
    Images
    20
    Some people use a rubber band, if they are missing the metal band, so yes, that's worth trying.

    With pyrocat, I'd do the initial fill with the lid off in the dark, and that should take care of the blotchiness.

    1200ml should fill the tank to cover the reel, so you get it in one pour without any spillover.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Toulouse, France
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    527
    Hi !
    You mention a Pyro based dev.
    And a second (third ?) hand reel.
    Maybe this is due to contamination problems.
    May I suggest you clean the reel and tank using a nitric acid bath as recomended in the instruction sheet ? (it worked nicelly on my set which was really black when entering home and they look really like new, now)
    As per the elastic band, use it around the reel to prevent the sheets to exit the reel during agitation.

  9. #9
    eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Southern California
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,586
    Images
    55
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    I like tray developing but get so many scratches and dings on the negs, even after practicing a whole year I cannot get scratch free negatives. And that's with FP4 and Tri-X film. Drives me nuts...
    - Thomas
    I've done tray too and getting scratches and dings. Then someone pointed me to the directions on viewcamera.com. The directions was for doing the negs with the EMULSION side down! I tried it and I thought for sure I'd get scratches due to the bottom of the tray. Completely the opposite of how I learned.

    I don't get scratches anymore after doing it that way.



 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin