Switch to English Language Passer en langue franÁaise Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,566   Posts: 1,545,386   Online: 1079
      
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 23

Thread: Freezing paper

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Cardiff St Wales UK
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    156

    Freezing paper

    Iíve often seen mentioned here, the practice of storing paper in a freezer. As certain makes of paper are now becoming harder to find, Iím thinking of buying a small chest freezer for out in the garage and storing a few of my favourite boxes. Could I ask, what is the accepted procedure? Both for freezing and un freezing. Also, are there any drawbacks, ie: how long is it best to store a paper? do they deteriorate? do certain papers store better than others? and are there any papers that are not suitable for long term storage?

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Dedham, Ma, USA
    Shooter
    Med. Format Pan
    Posts
    625
    It's not a question I can answer regarding "how long"; I've had paper frozen for 15-20 years (color and B&W) and it was still good when I used it. No noticeable change. I would say it may last indefinitely!

    I usually allow 8 hours warm-up (to room temperature) for a box of 100 sheets.

    I currently have a large stock of Forte paper in the freezer - my favorite!
    Last edited by panastasia; 02-26-2008 at 09:03 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    "Pictures are not incidental frills to a text; they are essences of our distinctive way of knowing." Stephen J. Gould

  3. #3
    Mike Wilde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Misissauaga Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,939
    Images
    29

    a few tricks

    My freezer - a small chest unit, is almost full of paper to the exculson of food. Most of it is a result of friends giving me supplies as they move to the d side.

    Double bag the long term store ones and then seal the outer bag, over the box with masking tape before freezing. Mark the tape with a sharpie marker as to what is in the box. This prevents the box from absorbing moisture and swelling, and thus keeps a source of moisture away from the paper when it is time to thaw. I do this when I have, say 3 boxes of polycontrast 100 sheets of 8x10, and one of 250. All but one of the 100's gets double bagged. The double stocks go to the bottom of the freezer, or under the freezer basket.

    Try to stack paper on end, so the labels on the end of the box can be read. It also allows for one box to be removed without unloading half of the freezer.

    I try to unload into 25's envelopes, and keep the envelopes in the film fridge. They warm up a lot faster than 100 boxes when it is time to use the paper.

    I try to transfer from the frozen box to the envelope out in the garage in the dark at night on a cold night. that way there is little moisture in air, and therefore less to condense on the equally cold frozen paper.

    Most chest freezers have the condenser coils in the top half of the outside wall of the cabinet. Feel where the outside is warm when the freezer runs and is cooling goods. Below that level it is fair game and a good idea to beef up the level of insulation. I use 2" rigid SM type foam boards. I also have one that sits over the top of the lid. They cut the amount of heat that leaks in, hence the compressor runs less frequently. This same technique is used on the bar fridge that I use for currently open envelopes of paper and film.

    Inventory what is in the freezer and fridges. Put the list and a pencil close at hand to the freezer. That way you do not need to open the thing and dig like a mad man when you used up what you thought you had stashed, and allows for better stock rotation.

  4. #4
    Mike Wilde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Misissauaga Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,939
    Images
    29

    Further info

    High contrast papers loose contrast with time and become lower contrast papers. Low contrast papers don't generally change as much as high contrast ones do.

    Developer incorporated papers fog faster than non DI papers.

    Multigraded papers may change their performance as they age.

    All papers tend to become slower as they age.

    Colour papers age faster thah B&W - it is the dyes here, not just the silver. Most recent Kodak papers need more filtration to offset red sensitivity loss as they age.

    If papers fog lightly (a general overall grey regardless of exposure), then adding potassuim bromide or benzotriazole restraining agents to suppress fog can help, as can stronger exposures and accompanying short developing times. Long development times, say longer than 2 minutes with FB paper will encourage any fog that may be lurking in an old paper to come to life.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Sarajevo
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,801
    I sent same question to Ilford (Harman) some time ago and they answered freezing paper will prolong life of Ilford paper without compromizing characteristics.

    But, I didn't got answer will repeatedly freezing/unfreezing (after all when you unfreeze box of 100 sheets you will not use all paper atonce and it is logicall you will freeze/unfreeze it several times) make any harm to paper.
    Bosnia... You don't have to be crazy to live here, but it helps...
    No things in life should be left unfinis

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Dedham, Ma, USA
    Shooter
    Med. Format Pan
    Posts
    625
    I don't refreeze after unfreeze, unless I need something in the freezer for a reference to compare to more modern papers, such as: a sheet of Ektalure G (warm-up/unseal/reseal/refreeze). I also have some Panalure (RC). After doing this I would expect some slight fogging due to cyclic stress on the material, but it's only for reference - it's all about comparing the tone - since I only have a few sheets of each.
    Last edited by panastasia; 02-26-2008 at 11:52 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    "Pictures are not incidental frills to a text; they are essences of our distinctive way of knowing." Stephen J. Gould

  7. #7
    Dave Miller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Middle England
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    3,894
    Images
    2
    I think the first think to say is that paper doesn’t freeze. Water freezes, and there shouldn’t be too much of that in your paper, or it’s emulsion. So moving it in and out of your freezer shouldn’t hurt it. I agree that the boxes should be put in plastic bags to ensure that it doesn’t absorb water during storage and that at least 8 hours should be allowed for the paper to warm to ambient temperature before unbagging and opening. Opening earlier will encourage moisture to condense into the paper and box to it’s detriment. As has been said here different types and makes of paper age differently.
    Regards Dave.

    An English Eye


  8. #8

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pasadena, CA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    813
    Images
    9
    This thread is helpful because I recently scored a treasure trove of papers from someone getting out of the business...Portriga, Brovira, plus all the other Agfa papers, Forte, Oriental, Ektalure, all sizes, you name it...

    I have it stored in cabinets right now but LA will heat up early in the season, so I need to do something relatively soon.

    Thanks for all the advice...btw, how much better is it to store in the freezer rather than just the fridge?

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Dedham, Ma, USA
    Shooter
    Med. Format Pan
    Posts
    625
    Quote Originally Posted by PVia View Post
    This thread is helpful because I recently scored a treasure trove of papers from someone getting out of the business...Portriga, Brovira, plus all the other Agfa papers, Forte, Oriental, Ektalure, all sizes, you name it...

    I have it stored in cabinets right now but LA will heat up early in the season, so I need to do something relatively soon.

    Thanks for all the advice...btw, how much better is it to store in the freezer rather than just the fridge?


    The colder the better - the freezer is better. Much of the keeping quality depends on how fresh the paper was before you deep freeze it. That would be a good question to ask about your substantial score..
    "Pictures are not incidental frills to a text; they are essences of our distinctive way of knowing." Stephen J. Gould

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Downers Grove Illinois
    Posts
    1,052
    The chemical ageing rather than inventory or time ageing of paper emulsions eleiminated any significant advantage of freezing.

    Paper used to lasr 10 years with minor effects. Today you get 3 from date of manufacture.

    This complaint needs to be carried to Ilford and other manufactures so the practice is stopped. Lots of luck.
    Yes it will increase costs somewhat as paper needs to kept in inventory before being sold.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  ó   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin