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Thread: Old Paper Again

  1. #21
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Ok, Opal is an enlarging paper made from a Silver Chloro-Bromide emulsion, probably high bromide, Velox is a Chloro-Bromide with high chloride, I would guess, and Azo is a pure Chloride emulsion for contact printing. The first two in the early days, contained Cadmium and/or Mercury salts to control curve shape and tone. Azo used another method.

    PE

  2. #22
    Rlibersky's Avatar
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    Here are some prints printed on the same paper. All enlarging Defender 58D. Nothing scientific here just shows a print can be made on old paper.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Cykora.jpg   Ecktalure G.jpg   Indiatone.jpg   medalist.jpg   Potrait Proof.jpg  

    Velour Black.jpg  

  3. #23

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    Robert,

    Are all of these on the same paper grade? I ask because the cykora portrait seems to have much more contrast than the portrait proof.

    Thanks for the images.
    John Bowen

  4. #24
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Randy, thanks for sharing these results. I have actually seen all of these in real life, and the variations in surface texture was quite tangible. What really struck me was how fog free these older papers printed.
    Randy has been very kind in mixing me a couple of batches of the 58-D formula that I intent to try on some really old Velox (I've got 700+ sheets that expired in 1947) and some Agfa Portriga Rapid G2 and 3 from the 1980s that fog very badly in Ansco-130 glycin developer (although it works with lith chemistry, and beautifully so).

    Another highlight is how beautiful some of those old papers are. Man, I live in the wrong decade. Although printers back then would probably be excited about some of the papers available to me... That whole thing with grass and how it's greener on the other side... Whatever enables us to make nice prints like these is definitely worthwhile.

    Thanks for sharing your results, Randy!

    - Thomas
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  5. #25
    Rlibersky's Avatar
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    Thanks for the nice words Thomas. I will have to go look on the grade of the paper. If I remember correctly, and I wouldn't bet on it, these are on grade 2 and grade 3. I don't know which is which though. I have found that what I expect to be a grade 2 can be quite different in this old paper. I figured some was due to age and some to the fact that brighteners were not used in the paper so the white are not as white as is expected today.

  6. #26

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    Could you scan something that is neutral in tone, like a regular B&W print, or even part of an image that's been printed onto paper, like from a book or magazine? It kind of sounds like your scanner is all over the place...

  7. #27
    Rlibersky's Avatar
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    Here is a print from Berrger paper Grade 2 with Ilford Filters using a Arista cold light bulb. I'm not so sure it is the scanner as much as the monitor. Neither of the monitors I use are color calibrated for anything. The above prints look good on both of mine, at home and work one is a Scanview the other a Dell. The first batch of gray scale scans were made quite a bit smaller then needed for posting here and did cause some of the shift problems.

    In the end the print as seen on the computer will probaly never accurately match the print in hand certainly not the texture of the paper. It is only a representation to show it has a good scale, considering the age, and is fog free using the formulas mentioned. More then that I can not do.

    Randy
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Neutral tone scan.jpg  

  8. #28
    Rlibersky's Avatar
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    So is no one interested in actually working with old paper. After all the comments about how much we missed the old stuff I thought this would generate more interest. As it is it turned into a discussion on my scanning abilities. Oh well.

    If anybody is interested I would be interested in what you have done with old paper. Other then throwing it away of course.

  9. #29
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    I was hoping this thread would produce more answers and questions with respect to old papers too. Even though I have decided to leave the old stuff alone (there is nothing broken with my printing that needs to be fixed), it was interesting to see Randy's beautiful prints, and I was genuinely excited about the prospects.

    The whole point of the thread was to show that it is indeed possible to print on old paper, and that the prints can be virtually fog free with a near miraculous print developer. And I can tell you that those prints were beautiful in the 'flesh'.

    - Thomas
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  10. #30
    Jim Fitzgerald's Avatar
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    Randy, I'm interested! The scans are just that .... scans. The defender 58D that you use has a chemical in it to control the fogging. What is it again and where can you get it? I have some old Opal, Velox, Azo and other papers that I would like to use. Does the defender 58D give you better results or do you like what you get with the LPD with the extra Benzo?

    Jim

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