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  1. #11
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Agfa Brovira works wonders with lith developers if all else fails. There are some fog-reducing agents out there, but I have a box or two that is hopelessly fogged, and I can get really nice prints from lith chemistry. I think it has to do with the paper receiving so much exposure from the enlarger (for this paper I recommend starting at 40s at f/8 for a normal medium format neg and go from there), in the realm of 3-5 times the normal exposure. Worth trying if it fogs badly. Or you can just send it to me...

    - Thomas
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  2. #12
    acroell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kraker View Post
    Funny you should mention Agfa Brovira. I'm just back from the darkroom where I tried out some old (obviously) Brovira BN113 10x15 (that's cm). I have recently received a few unopened boxes of 100 of various Brovira papers (10x15 and even smaller; nothing bigger, but hey, it was for free, so I can't and won't complain), and I thought I'd give them a try.

    What worked for me (and may or may not work for you) to get some useful results: the paper required very short exposure compared to new Ilford paper (about 1 stop less), but it required a loooong development time. Where I normally see some image appear after, what, 10-20 seconds(?), it takes a full minute for this Brovira. After some trial and error, it seems that after that, it still requires about 90 seconds, so total would be 2 1/2 minute.
    That might be due to the fact that the modern papers (both FB and RC) usually contain some small amount of developer incorporated into the emulsion - not as much as the papers made for activation with just an alkaline solution- but still some. Older papers didn't use that,and not having the developer incorporated will lengthen the induction time.

  3. #13
    kraker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acroell View Post
    That might be due to the fact that the modern papers (both FB and RC) usually contain some small amount of developer incorporated into the emulsion - not as much as the papers made for activation with just an alkaline solution- but still some. Older papers didn't use that,and not having the developer incorporated will lengthen the induction time.
    That makes sense... thanks!

    shuttr.net
    -- A sinister little midget with a bucket and a mop / Where the blood goes down the drain --

  4. #14
    thicktheo's Avatar
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    So I got this Agfa paper (Multicontrast or something, don't have the pack in front of me right now) from a university darkroom. I had it for some months and yesterday I decided to test it, with Ilford Paper Developer. Result? Very high fog, could not get the whites to show up, could not get normal contrast not even when using a 5 filter.

    Funny thing is, the times needed to expose the paper seemed to severely affect the final image, regardless of the selected aperture.

    What can I do to get usable and as-repeatable-as-possible results from this paper? I was given three 8x10'' 100-sheet packs and it would be a shame to throw it all away.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2012-02-23 21.10.16_1200.jpg  

  5. #15

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    You can try this paper in hydroquinone developer(gives more contrast) or glycin-hydroquinone(for normal gradation). I received absolutely clean(unfogged) pictures from ultimately hopeless papers if developed in common MQ-PQ dev-s. Also you can make lith.

  6. #16
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thicktheo View Post
    So I got this Agfa paper (Multicontrast or something, don't have the pack in front of me right now) from a university darkroom. I had it for some months and yesterday I decided to test it, with Ilford Paper Developer. Result? Very high fog, could not get the whites to show up, could not get normal contrast not even when using a 5 filter.

    Funny thing is, the times needed to expose the paper seemed to severely affect the final image, regardless of the selected aperture.

    What can I do to get usable and as-repeatable-as-possible results from this paper? I was given three 8x10'' 100-sheet packs and it would be a shame to throw it all away.
    It may or may not work, but print higher contrast than normal, overexposed a hair, and snatch the print from the developer before fog gets too bad. Then bleach back to remove excess fog. fix again.

    If you get the balance between overexposure, contrast, and snatch point, you can get almost normal looking prints.

    Benzotriazole in developer helps too.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  7. #17
    David Lyga's Avatar
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    For each and every box this procedure has to be done separately.

    1) Cut a small piece (about 1 inch square) of paper from the box you are currently testing. Then in full room light place half of it in paper developer (like Dektol 1 + 2 dilution) in order to see how long it takes for maximum black (probably less than one minute). Note the time in seconds.

    2) Cut another similar piece of paper. Keep the room light off. Place a small coin in the middle of the paper and firmly hold the coin down with your finger. With the coin held down, turn on the room lights for about 5 seconds. Turn off all lights and develop for the time needed in step one for maximum black.

    3) After fixation, note the tone of the coin area: if pure white you have perfect paper in that box. If medium grey it is still usable but will need other treatment to make beautiful prints.

    4) If medium grey: you need a two fold approach towards getting that pure white back. Add either potassium bromide or benzotriazole to the developer. (NOTA BENE: To make a stock solution (MY way) of potassium bromide add 12 ml volume of powder (about 18 G) to 100 ml of water. To make a stock solution (MY way) of benzotriazole add 1 G (sorry, volumetric measuring is not practical because this chemical is like feathers) to 100 ml of water). With either of these restraining solutions you add about 20 ml to each liter of developer working solution. Now, the addition of this will slow down the time it takes to achieve maximum black, so test again with the tiny piece of paper like in step two.

    5) Finally, if the coin area still shows some grey you have to make your print a bit darker and then use a reducer after fixation to take off that ugly veil of grey. Reducing solution, like Farmer's Reducer, but slightly different, is this: mix 1 G of potassium ferricyanide (or 1 ml by volume: with potassium ferricyanide the grams are the same as the volume) into 100 ml of water. That is your 'bleach'. Take one part bleach and add to one part 'paper strength' fixer. That is your reducing solution but, beware, that is quite strong. Depending upon how much grey you wish to remove you can dilute this solution up to FIVE TIMES! That means, a solution of 100 ml of reducer (ie, 50 ml of bleach plus 50 ml of paper fixer) can have up to 400 ml of water added to make a total of 500 ml of diluted reducer. Agitate frequently and watch the print like a hawk. Too much reduction means a lost print.

    6) The combination of both the restrainer and reducer has meant that many a box of photo paper deemed lost is now found. It does take a bit of experience to 'dance around' with this procedure but, in the end, you will have obtained a king's ransom of paper for pennies. - David Lyga

    NOTE: And, yes, Bertilsson's "snatch point" is very well spoken. It becomes, sometimes, a maddening game to play to know when to remove such a print from the developer because, on one hand, you want that contrast which is difficult to obtain with age fogged paper and, on the other hand, you want to keep the fog low with less development. You also want that maximum black. Achieving all three can be frustrating but the achievement of this ideal is enhanced with 'snatching' the paper from the developer at the proper time. ADVICE: experiment and note carefully what you did if you find improvements. - David Lyga.
    Last edited by David Lyga; 02-24-2012 at 07:52 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #18
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    it may have lost some speed and contrst,but that can be easily compensated for. try it!
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  9. #19
    Ricus.stormfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    Agfa Brovira works wonders with lith developers if all else fails. There are some fog-reducing agents out there, but I have a box or two that is hopelessly fogged, and I can get really nice prints from lith chemistry. I think it has to do with the paper receiving so much exposure from the enlarger (for this paper I recommend starting at 40s at f/8 for a normal medium format neg and go from there), in the realm of 3-5 times the normal exposure. Worth trying if it fogs badly. Or you can just send it to me...

    - Thomas
    +1

    When in doubt, lith.....

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