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  1. #11
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Hey Guillaume

    just got the negs, waiting for the dev,

    I am a bit confused with the dilution.. I seems pretty strong, to me, as well the paper is very active to any bleach tone if it is the same paper we were using. For most split toning I am using a cold tone paper and remember the reaction that we had when we first toned the trees, man it went fast.
    Also as you noted to me that sometimes it is very hot in your darkroom, if the ambient temp is too high the chems could be too hot and be working at hyper speed.
    I would think that you should really dilute the bleach and the stinky as well and do some tests. less time in the bleach as well just as suggested wash the print immediately.
    Are you doing the sepia first???
    If you are doing the selenium first , you may be locking in the blacks and lower mid tones and not seeing the true effect of the bleach.
    This may throw you off.
    We always do the selenium last and watch for the split in this step.

    As far as coming back, you are always welcome in our home,,,
    I can't believe that bastard Dinesh though , anything for a beer , I mean what kind of individual would stoop to the lows that he suggests in his post.
    crate is made and we should be shipping shortly.

    best regards
    Bob

    Quote Originally Posted by Guillaume Zuili View Post
    Hi,

    I have been lurking to some beautiful split sepia-selenium prints last week at Bob's place. Last night I couldn't resist and did some prints on Varycon.
    This morning I did the toning and I'm quite puzzled by the strong reaction of the sepia toner. Way too much. And the split didn't really work after.
    Bleach was diluted 1 + 4 and the effect on the print was very light. But when I put it in the sepia toner it jumped like crazy in a matter of second.

    So...
    Do I need to dilute even further the bleach ?
    Do I need to dilute the stinky one to make it weak ?
    Do I need to go back to Toronto ?...

    Thanks !
    G.

  2. #12
    Dinesh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    ......I can't believe that bastard Dinesh though , anything for a beer , I mean what kind of individual would stoop to the lows that he suggests in his post....

    I have no shame!
    Kick his ass, Sea Bass!

  3. #13

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    For many of the reasons listed above, I selenium tone first. That holds the lower values while the bleach works, and you can use a stronger bleach, which I agree with folks above that it gives a better split.

    Obviously, going this route the selenium toner needs to be a little dilute so you can monitor it and yank. I don't like leaving a fiber print in bleach for extended periods, because it takes more time than you think to clear the fibers.

  4. #14
    Guillaume Zuili's Avatar
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    Ok, I nailed it !
    - Bleach diluted 1+5, 15 seconds in it.
    - Stinky diluted 1+4, 1 minute in it.
    Almost no visible result in open light.
    - Magic happening in Selenium for 2/3 minutes diluted 1+10
    Will post tomorrow the results and comparative with previous attempt.

    Thank you all for the imput.

    Bob, Varycon is the VC brother of Emak. Be kind with Dinesh if possible !
    Happy beer Dinesh !
    Christian, I want to try your cocktail !
    Rich, I will try with selenium first to see how it goes.

    Thanks again all.
    Guillaume

  5. #15

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    The way I've always done it is this:
    1) I use the regular bleach amount/strength and print just slightly darker than normal. Depending on the image and effect I want to convey, maybe 1/2 grade flatter too.
    2) Develop normally. After the fix, I rinse for 1 minute under pretty fast water.
    3) bleach for 20 sec. (usually 35) to 1 minute max!
    4) rinse again under strong water wash for 1 minute, and trying to dump the tray of water to really get the bleach off the paper and out of the tray.
    5) Put in normal strength of Sepia for 45 seconds.
    6) rinse again under strong water wash for 1 minute, again dumping the water to get the chemical out.
    7) Put in PermaWash, normal dilution, for 1 minute. This stops any further Sepia toning.
    8) rinse again under strong water wash for 1 minute, again dumping the water to get the chemical out.
    9) Put in Selenium 1:3 for 30 to 45 sec.
    10) rinse again under strong water wash for 1 minute, again dumping the water to get the chemical out.
    11) Put in PermaWash, normal dilution, for 5 minute. This stops any further Selenium toning.
    12) 5 minute final wash.

    Keep in mind that the sepia will affect the highs, and the selenium the shadows. You want to only get the sepia to get into the upper highs, maybe the upper grays (lighter ones) but not too far down into the shadow area and darker grays. The Selenium will quickly turn the shadows and creep into the lower darker areas/grays. The interesting part is where the sepia and selenium tones meet. I've attached 3 examples, Levi's and WB are from jobs (WB is Wilkes Bashford, a high-end clothier in San Francisco), and _7 a landscape for a client. Levi's was done with little sepia time, just to get the shirt and more selenium for everything else, WB was extreme bleach and fix (no sepia), then Selenium, which got the shadow/dark areas and strengthened the bleach/fix color, and the landscape was an easy balance, since its basically only two tonal areas...light (sepia) and dark (selenium). I can't remember what paper Levi's was done on...maybe Zone VI multi-contrast, but the other two were Ilford MG.

    Hope this helps.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Levi's.jpg   WB.jpg   _7.jpg  

  6. #16
    Guillaume Zuili's Avatar
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    Very nice samples you put Jfish. I can't use the bleach as you do with the Varycon, too warm and too fast.
    Your combo works beautifully with Ilford and Zone VI.
    Best,
    Guillaume

  7. #17
    billschwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guillaume Zuili View Post
    - Bleach diluted 1+5, 15 seconds in it.
    Wow... that IS fast. I tend to go even further with dilution - 1:9 allowing me even slower bleach times and more of an opportunity to build the tone to suit my taste. Even at that dilution it takes 2-3 minutes total bleach time with the cold-tone Ilford paper I use. I'm going to have to give the Varycon a try.

    I read in another thread that you were having trouble with batch consistancy with this paper. Has this changed at all?

    Thanks Guillaume.

  8. #18
    Guillaume Zuili's Avatar
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    Bill,
    The trouble was very acute with Lith ! One box was amazing, the next one was a pure nightmare. I had to find the same emulsion number to finish my series.
    But with a normal processing it shouldn't be a problem. Give a try it's a very nice paper. But Emak to my taste has more character.
    Confession of an Agfa addict... I need to give a try to Ilford !
    Take care,
    Guillaume

  9. #19

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    thanks for the discussion! i really enjoyed it and learned a lot. i am going to try this and this thread really helps!

    cheers

    eddie
    photoshop is somewhere you go to buy photo equipment.


    lens photos here

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guillaume Zuili View Post
    Very nice samples you put Jfish. I can't use the bleach as you do with the Varycon, too warm and too fast.
    Your combo works beautifully with Ilford and Zone VI.
    Best,
    Guillaume
    Thanks for the compliment.

    That dilution also works on, or did, Portregia, Ektalure, Forte, Bergger, and any other paper I printed on. Haven't tried Varycon, but it would seem that it should work. If you need to slow down your P. Ferri and P. Bromide formula, just add more Bromide. That dictates the speed of the action of the Ferri.

    Also, bleach, especially bleach with sepia, is gonna give you warm. There's not much you can do about that. Even the bleach/fix will do the same.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by jfish; 03-31-2008 at 03:56 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Forgot to add a "thank you".

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