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  1. #11
    pierods's Avatar
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    All right.

    So we can say that acutance developers render film "truthfully", "as-is", while fine grain developers can be thought as "applying polish" to a negative.

    Right?

  2. #12
    John Bragg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierods View Post
    All right.

    So we can say that acutance developers render film "truthfully", "as-is", while fine grain developers can be thought as "applying polish" to a negative.

    Right?
    That is somewhat like the truth. Fine grain developers chemically reduce the grain at the cost of reduced percieved sharpness. Accutance developers keep the grain and sharpness intact.

    Regards, John.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by pierods View Post
    All right.

    So we can say that acutance developers render film "truthfully", "as-is", while fine grain developers can be thought as "applying polish" to a negative.

    Right?

    WRONG!!!

    No photograph is literal. All photographs are interpretations and its upto you how you interpret the subject and render it.
    You can spend all year talking about grain and acutance if you want, but you won't understand them until you have learnt to control them. And the only way you will do that is by going out and doing some photography and printing it and thereby discovering it for yourself.

  4. #14
    pierods's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the info.

  5. #15
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    If you want to make a comparison for yourself with a single developer, try D-76 or ID-11 stock solution and compare it to the results you get at 1+3 dilution. The solvent effect depends on how much sulfite is in the working solution, and D-76/ID-11 is a solvent developer with a lot of sulfite, so you'll get a strong solvent effect with the developer at full strength, producing fine grain and lower acutance, and much less of a solvent effect at 1+3, producing sharper grain and higher acutance.

    Or if you want to make a very dramatic comparison, try Microdol-X or Perceptol as a fine grain developer and compare it to Rodinal or R09 or Beutler's (I think there's a commercially available version from Moersch or maybe Adox or both) as an acutance developer.

    The single-developer comparison, though, has the advantage of making the most important variable the sulfite concentration in the working solution, and you can usually get the same speed at both dilutions.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
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  6. #16
    pierods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb View Post
    The single-developer comparison, though, has the advantage of making the most important variable the sulfite concentration in the working solution, and you can usually get the same speed at both dilutions.
    Very good suggestion but I need a clarification: what do you mean by speed ?

    As in the description of DD-X on ilford's site:

    "Fine grain developer giving full film speed"

    Film speed is written on the package, what's the developer got to do with it?

  7. #17
    John Bragg's Avatar
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    Film speed (as printed on the box) is determined in lab conditions. In practical terms, developer other than that used in the lab test may well change effective speed either up or down.

    Regards, John.

  8. #18
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    Different developers will affect the notional speed of a film - some will make it faster, some will slow it down. Also affecting this is your own method of developing including temperature, agitation etc etc etc. You may find that by using film box speed works well for you, others dont. With my developer of choice and technique, I tend to be between 1 stop and 2/3 stop slower than box speeds for the detail I want in my negs. Others will be different too - this is why development times and box speeds are always only a starting point. If you're not getting enough detail in your shadows, slow down the film a bit, if you're having to print really soft and still stuggling to get detail in highlights, reduce development time.

    hope that helps
    Last edited by Leon; 04-10-2008 at 09:41 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: typo - john beat me to it

  9. #19
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    There is another aspect of accutance developers to consider. To work it has to be a very dilute yet active developer so that it exhausts rapidly. An accutance developer doesn't develop the whole emulsion it developes just the top of it so that sharpness is increased just by the fact that light passing through it goes through a shallower layer of grain. And by agitating less combined with the exhaustion of the developer you get slight more density where areas of more exposure lie next to areas of less exposure and this is accentuated by adding potassium iodide to the developer. The edge affect causes the print to look sharper though in reality it doesn't actually have greater resolution. The dilute nature of an accutance developer causes it to be somewhat compensating.
    http://www.pbase.com/dpurdy/rollei_xenotar__pentax_67
    Every image on this page is processed in Beutlers mostly on Acros but some on Tmax 100

    Dennis

  10. #20
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    Accutance developers generally create "Mackie" lines at the boundaries of dense areas that create a sort of outline that makes an image look sharp. Two ways this can occur is where a weak solvent developer can move silver from a dense area to a boundary like D76 1:3 and another method is with a tanning developer like Pyro anything or Rodinal which will cause the emulsion to physically stop allowing fresh chemistry in at a certain point and then continue to work the boundaries. Stand development promotes this process and there is likely to be a speed increase and an increase in graininess as well. Hi resolution films work against this process - coarse grain films amplify this process. Sharpest appearing images tend to be a little grainy and highest resolution photos tend to be a little soft and mushy looking.
    My photos are always without all that distracting color ...

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