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  1. #1

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    B&W that uses C-41

    In a freecycle lot, I got a handfull of HP5 and Fp4 and some miscellaneous kodak films. However, one roll is labeled B&W develop in c-41 not in B&W chemicals.

    What is this?

    Is it just black and white but no color dyes in it? Ore are there black dyes?

    Certainly an interesting idea, but this is the first I am seeing it. Kind of a b&w for people that don't develop their own perhaps?

  2. #2
    Stoo Batchelor's Avatar
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    Kind of a b&w for people that don't develop their own perhaps?
    Exactly that. developed in colour chems.

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  3. #3

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    So what happens, if you develop that in b&w chemistry? I guess it would need a bleach at least... Been a long time since I did any color chemistry at all, this puppy may have to go to the 1 hour lab

  4. #4
    Stoo Batchelor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe View Post
    So what happens, if you develop that in b&w chemistry? I guess it would need a bleach at least... Been a long time since I did any color chemistry at all, this puppy may have to go to the 1 hour lab
    The whole idea of the film is that it CAN be dropped in to the one hour photo lab. In answer to your question about if it can be developed in b+w chems, the answer must be yes, as it is listed in the Massive development chart. Try 35mm in ID11 or D76 for 14 minutes at 22 degrees. I would not know the outcome as I have not yet tried the combination.

    Many APUGers use this film and swear by it, largely due to its ease of scanning and the fact that you can use the digital-ice on your scanner. For what its worth, I will never touch it again. The reason being that your film is in someone elses hands. I have had real bad experiences because of this. You may think C41 is C41, I certainly did, but when I got my first set of negs back in this film(XP2+) they had been butchered, and that was from one of the leading U.K labs. I had to print on Zero grade and flash the paper, yet I was led to believe that they would print nicely at grade 3. Experience number two was printing some one elses negs, same film. One set printed beautifully at grade 2 1/2, the next set at grade 3 1/2. They were all over the place, and the grain, well, bad, and these films should be grainless. Take what I say with a pinch of salt, as for every bad experience there will be 100 good ones, I guess I have just been unlucky, though never again for me thank you.

    Best

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  5. #5
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    XP2 or Kodak's BW400CN are chromogenic films, so it means that as the silver is developed, a dye is formed nearby. This is what happens in all available colour films (with some differences for Kodachrome). In the XP2 or BW400CN films, it just so happen that the dye is gray.

    The dye formation is dependent on the presence of very specific by-products of development, caused by the oxidization of colour developer. So if you use D-76 to develop XP2, you will reduce the silver halide to silver, but I don't think you will induce dye formation. That's my understanding of it. So you will simply have a rather normal B&W negative, the quality of which I am absolutely cluess about.
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  6. #6

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    Kodak's C-41 B&W product (BW400CN) has an orange backing, similar to regular colour c-41 films. This has the advantage of being able to scan like regular colour films, but may pose more issues with optical printing. Locally I've found 1-hr labs (and pro-labs) have no trouble printing this, and I get monochrome prints in B&W (on colour paper, mind you).

    Ilford's C-41 B&W product (XP2) has a green or magenta tint (not sure if it's a proper backing per se), which, at least locally, gives labs fits - the few times I've tried it with them printing it I got green or magenta-tinted monochrome prints Some say it's easier to optically print XP2, I have no experience with it.

    Personally, I like BW400CN for informal portraits - it's really hard to completely blow out its highlights, so you can use strong lights/flashes and it will likely still turn out. Add to this 24 exp. rolls are sold in my local Wal-Marts

    As for developing in standard B&W chems, it should work to some extent - developing *any* C-41-based film in standard chems will get you a B&W negative of some sort. No idea if it's usable, though.
    Last edited by mabman; 04-16-2008 at 11:32 AM. Click to view previous post history.
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  7. #7
    Paul VanAudenhove's Avatar
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    My understanding has always been that the Ilford films were designed for regular B&W printing, while the Kodak films were meant to be printed on color materials - which explains the the different colored mask on Kodak films.

  8. #8

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    tried it. it works OK in B&W chems but it's grainier than using the C41 process.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoo Batchelor View Post
    The whole idea of the film is that it CAN be dropped in to the one hour photo lab. In answer to your question about if it can be developed in b+w chems, the answer must be yes, as it is listed in the Massive development chart. Try 35mm in ID11 or D76 for 14 minutes at 22 degrees. I would not know the outcome as I have not yet tried the combination.

    Many APUGers use this film and swear by it, largely due to its ease of scanning and the fact that you can use the digital-ice on your scanner. For what its worth, I will never touch it again. The reason being that your film is in someone elses hands. I have had real bad experiences because of this. You may think C41 is C41, I certainly did, but when I got my first set of negs back in this film(XP2+) they had been butchered, and that was from one of the leading U.K labs. I had to print on Zero grade and flash the paper, yet I was led to believe that they would print nicely at grade 3. Experience number two was printing some one elses negs, same film. One set printed beautifully at grade 2 1/2, the next set at grade 3 1/2. They were all over the place, and the grain, well, bad, and these films should be grainless. Take what I say with a pinch of salt, as for every bad experience there will be 100 good ones, I guess I have just been unlucky, though never again for me thank you.

    Best

    Stoo
    C-41 is C-41, some labs just run control strips and others don't. The hard part is in the printing. On older optical minilabs it was quite difficult to get neutral results, on newer laser exposure minilabs, it is easy to get neutral results, however most techs don't bother learning the machine well enough to get optimal results.

  10. #10

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    This is promising, since I don't process my own, and may not for some time. Ive seen this stuff at the local Wal-Mart and Walgreen's but was afraid to pick it up. I may have to give it a try, Ive been waiting 9 days now to get back a roll of Tri-X back and it sucks. Dropping off before work and picking up after would be awesome.

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