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  1. #1
    pierods's Avatar
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    engineer's POV on film development

    Hi,

    I am an engineer by day, a wannabe film developer by night.

    I bought "The film developing cookbook" and looked up dev times for delta 400 in ID-11.

    From the book:

    delta 400@400ISO, 20c, small tank:

    id-11 stock 7 mins
    id-11 1+1 10.5 mins

    From Ilford's data sheet (same conditions):

    id-11 stock 9.5 mins
    id-11 1+1 14 mins

    ????????????????

    Also, still from Ilford's delta 400 sheet:

    CHOOSING THE BEST ILFORD
    DEVELOPER FOR THE JOB

    Maximum sharpness (powder) ID-11 (1+3)


    When you go and look for dev times, IN THE SAME SHEET, for delta 400 with ID-11 at 1+3...UNLISTED!

    Either I'm missing the obvious, or this is a very large WTF situation...
    Last edited by pierods; 04-21-2008 at 05:03 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: typos

  2. #2
    eclarke's Avatar
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    Yep, you need to test all this stuff yourself, water is a variable, temperature is a variable, exposure is a variable, development method is a variable, agitation is a variable...on and on.....EC

  3. #3
    Mark Antony's Avatar
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    The times are an estimate (suggestions) you can't take them and make an absolute. There are many variables even the same film and dev combo in two different cameras will give slightly different results.
    Try to do a test, it could be that to get the required result you need to rate the film lower or move dev times up/down slightly from the suggested.
    The suggested info will give ballpark Ok results.
    Mark

  4. #4
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Enlarging method is another factor. Your ideal development time will vary with the light source of your enlarger and the kind of paper you use. That doesn't mean that a negative developed for a point source enlarger will be unprintable with a diffusion enlarger, but if you do it right, it will print easiest and best with the system it's targeted for.

    You might look at Ansel Adams' book, _The Negative_ for more details.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
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  5. #5
    pierods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb View Post
    Enlarging method is another factor. Your ideal development time will vary with the light source of your enlarger and the kind of paper you use. That doesn't mean that a negative developed for a point source enlarger will be unprintable with a diffusion enlarger, but if you do it right, it will print easiest and best with the system it's targeted for.

    You might look at Ansel Adams' book, _The Negative_ for more details.
    What is a film scanner considered to be, as far as development goes? Diffusion/point?

  6. #6
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierods View Post
    What is a film scanner considered to be, as far as development goes? Diffusion/point?
    Yet another thing, and it might require a different development time from either of them.

    Contact printing and alternative processes present yet further possibilities.

    For a given film/developer combination I may have one time for enlargement on enlarging paper, another time for contact printing on Azo, and another time for albumen printing.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
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  7. #7
    rwyoung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierods View Post
    What is a film scanner considered to be, as far as development goes? Diffusion/point?
    Neither. It is considered to be a film scanner.
    Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things! http://rwyoung.wordpress.com

  8. #8
    c6h6o3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierods View Post
    Hi,

    I am an engineer by day
    My condolences. I, too, suffer from this affliction.

    My advice is to try not to measure everything all that precisely and to realize that the choice of developer really doesn't make all that much difference in the end.

    It is sometimes unfortunate that so much applied science is necessary in the production of a piece of art. Sometimes we forget about the art part.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by c6h6o3 View Post
    My condolences. I, too, suffer from this affliction.

    My advice is to try not to measure everything all that precisely and to realize that the choice of developer really doesn't make all that much difference in the end.

    It is sometimes unfortunate that so much applied science is necessary in the production of a piece of art. Sometimes we forget about the art part.
    I have to disagree, respectfully.

    First, in developing film, you should measure things precisely because variations in film, developer, dilution, time, temperature, and method of development will definitely make a difference in the negative, and thus in the final print. The reason that there are differences in the times for this film and developer combination is that different photographers look for slightly different things. That is part of the art. Knowing how you got a specific result and thus being able to repeat it is part of the science. Photography, like painting and many others, is an art that involves a high degree of craft and experience with physical materials.

    In my opinion, for someone in the early stages of learning, the best advice is to go with what the manufacturer says. Gain some experience and you will know better what you want to see in a negative and what you don't want to see. When I first started in large format, I was obsessed with testing and it really was a waste of a time because I did not have the experience to assess the results. However, after shooting for a while and not getting what I wanted in shadows and highlights, I went back to some simple tests and got much better results because I knew what to look for.

  10. #10
    Mark Antony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierods View Post
    What is a film scanner considered to be, as far as development goes? Diffusion/point?
    I have found that you need lower contrast fro scanning than I would with a diffuser, probably similar to condenser.
    Trial and error I'm afraid.
    Mark

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