Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,578   Posts: 1,545,733   Online: 935
      
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Greece
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    1,322

    Question about agitation

    Hello everybody! I recently started developing B&W films and I've got a question that is puzzling me. I have the data sheets for the films I use and they mention the agitation that I should do during development. For instance, 5 secs every 30 secs etc. On the other hand, the bottle of rodinal I bought (by A&O imaging IIRC) says something tragically different.

    So, what should I do? Follow the developer's instructions or do what the film manufacturer says? So far, I have only processed 2 films (TriX, Delta 100) and I followed the film manufacturer's instructions. The TriX was easy to print, but the Delta 100 seemed to have a bit too much contrast.

    And the second question is what changes when you use a different agitation method? Development rate? Is there a risk to get too "dense" negatives, even if you develop for the recommended time?

  2. #2
    rwyoung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Lawrence, KS
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    704
    Images
    40
    There is no ONE RIGHT way to do agitation. In general, increasing agitation will increase contrast up to the point that continuous agitation like the Jobo rotary system means you have to decrease the developing time to maintain the same gamma.

    Pick a method you can live with, say the instructions on your bottle of Rodinal. Develop your film and keep good notes about what does and doesn't work. Remember that concentration and temperature also affect the final result.

    Since you liked the results you got for your TriX, stick with that (or experiment in a narrower range of variables) but for the Delta 100, maybe you need to agitate less (or more) or consider semi-stand or stand developing (minimal agitation). Try another roll or Delta 100 with as close to the same exposure range as you had before but back off your agitation by a factor of 2 (if you did 5 every 30, try 5 every minute instead).

    Also remember that the ISO on the box is a starting point, not the be-all-end-all for setting your meter and exposures.

    Just remember, keep good notes. Invest a little money in a notebook. If you don't write it down, it didn't happen!
    Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things! http://rwyoung.wordpress.com

  3. #3
    Dave Miller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Middle England
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    3,894
    Images
    2
    The most important thing is to be consistent. Increasing agitation generally increases contrast.
    Regards Dave.

    An English Eye


  4. #4
    Jim Noel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    1,846
    Blog Entries
    1
    The film data sheets are a good starting point. That said, there are developers which produce more generally pleasing negatives using a different method.
    Choose one method and stick with it for a time until you learn more about the process and the final results you desire.

    Delta 100, or any other 100 speed film, will be more contrasty than Tri-X, or other 400 speed films. This contrast differential is to be expected as slow films a inherently more contrasty. The secret is to alter development procedures ti get what you want.
    More agitation, longer developing time and higher temperatures will each produce more contrast. The opposite is also true.
    Is there a danger of getting too much negative contrast? Yes, but each printing process needs a different contrast range.
    Gelatin silver prints can be mde from a wide range of contrasts especially when using variable contrast paper.
    Alternative processes usually require greater negative contrast than gelatin silver.

    AS you can see, I have not answered many of your questions but hopefully have started you along the trail of continuing to study and investigate the many possibilities in producing photographic images.

    Good luck, and above all else, HAVE FUN!
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Films NOT Dead - Just getting fixed![/FONT]

  5. #5

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Woonsocket, RI USA
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    2,725
    I'd like to second Dave's recommendation: Be consistent. In fact, when starting out, it's best to pick one developer, along with one or two films, and use only those products for a while. Delta 100 and Tri-X 400 are fine for this purpose, but don't start adding new films until you're comfortable with these two. Rodinal is not usually considered an optimal developer for fast films (such as Tri-X), but in my limited experience with such combinations, it's not so bad as to be unusable. (Rodinal produces bigger grain than many other developers, so a fast film in Rodinal may produce objectionably big grain, particularly with 35mm or smaller film.) If you decide to switch from the Rodinal, do it now. Note that Rodinal lasts a long time on the shelf, so you should be able to come back to it in a few months with no loss of quality.

    Personally, I use one agitation method: 5s every 30s. I use this with every film and developer I use, without deviation. The reason is that I don't want to use custom agitation methods for each film and then get confused and use the wrong one at some point. I adjust my development time to suit the film using this method.

    Of course, others like to experiment with agitation style or customize it for particular films, but as a beginner, it's best to stick to one method and, if necessary, adjust the development time to get the right density. If you play with other variables, it'll be harder to figure out what's going on when you get results you don't (or do) like.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Greece
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    1,322
    So, I guess the correct answer is be consistent if you like the result and experiment if not. One less thing to worry about then...

    Thanks for the advice

    PS Don't you just love it when you get your answers that soon... This place is just great.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Greece
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    1,322
    Quote Originally Posted by srs5694 View Post
    ... Rodinal is not usually considered an optimal developer for fast films (such as Tri-X), but in my limited experience with such combinations, it's not so bad as to be unusable. (Rodinal produces bigger grain than many other developers, so a fast film in Rodinal may produce objectionably big grain, particularly with 35mm or smaller film.) If you decide to switch from the Rodinal, do it now. Note that Rodinal lasts a long time on the shelf, so you should be able to come back to it in a few months with no loss of quality...
    I guess it's all relative. The grain I got from Tri-X & Rodinal at 13x18 (5x7 in) looked good to me. I haven't tried bigger enlargements so far. One of the reasons for using Rodinal is shelf life. I don't shoot many films (don't have my own dark room) so rodinal seems ideal. Few months seems rather pessimistic; others say it lives a lot longer after it has been opened.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,055
    I like to agitate once/minute. My mind can't handle it if I do it twice every 30 secs.

    Yogi Berra orders a pizza and the waitress aks if he would like it cut into 6 or 8 pieces. Yogi responds by saying "6, I don't think I could eat 8!"

  9. #9

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Woonsocket, RI USA
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    2,725
    Quote Originally Posted by Anon Ymous View Post
    I guess it's all relative. The grain I got from Tri-X & Rodinal at 13x18 (5x7 in) looked good to me. I haven't tried bigger enlargements so far.
    Use what pleases you. It always amuses me when I read a post that asks (or asserts) about some combination producing "acceptable" grain, since that's such an incredibly subjective judgement.

    That said, my own subjective judgement is that grain seems to get worse faster than the final enlargement size goes up. Grain that seems OK in a 5x7-inch print may seem objectionable at 8x10-inch, even though the grain size relative to the image as a whole stays the same. I don't know if that's just me, though.

    One of the reasons for using Rodinal is shelf life. I don't shoot many films (don't have my own dark room) so rodinal seems ideal. Few months seems rather pessimistic; others say it lives a lot longer after it has been opened.
    My "few months" comment was based on an estimate of when you might want to start experimenting with other developers, not as an upper limit on how long Rodinal will last. As you say, most people claim Rodinal lasts for years. I've got a bottle that I bought about 3 or 4 years ago, and it still works fine. Some of the Rodinal "clones" (Calbe R09, etc.) are reputed to have shorter shelf lives, though. Another commercial developer with a reputation for excellent shelf life is Kodak HC-110. Among mix-it-yourself formulas, PC-Glycol and PC-TEA are both reputed to last a long time. (I've got some 3-year-old PC-Glycol that's still going strong.)

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Willamette Valley, Oregon
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    3,684

    Clean Up and Preperation

    Agitation intervals of two or three minutes allows
    for clean up and prep chores. The more dilute the
    chemistry the longer can be those intervals. Spend
    less time attending the film. Dan

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin