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  1. #11
    df cardwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Howell View Post
    I get mine from PF and it seems to be the standard formula.
    Yep. I'm pretty sure I weighed a kit a few years ago and it used 5 grams of glycin.

  2. #12

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    Has anyone tired any of the Champlin formulas? I did buy a scale a few weeks ago and tired Champlin 9, very disappointing.

  3. #13

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    DF, thanks!

  4. #14
    df cardwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Howell View Post
    Has anyone tired any of the Champlin formulas? I did buy a scale a few weeks ago and tired Champlin 9, very disappointing.
    Lowe discussed many of the mainstream and off-beat formulas in his "(What you should know about) DEVELOPERS Fine Grain and Otherwise", Camera Craft, 1939. Ansel Adams used it as a reference work in his first series of text books. Two Champlin formulas were evaluated, 15 & 16. Champlin's approach was discussed in Lowe's sympathetic and calm manner, "Some of the chemical theories expounded are rather unorthodox, and the author states a number of his own opinions as if they were proven facts. This, together with some unusually optimistic claims as to the merits of the Champlin formulas, has tended to discredit Mr. Champlin's among serious photographers."

    One of the difficulties of appreciating vintage formulas, including well known and well used developers today, is the absence of a measured and competent evaluation from their own time, and the methods and standards use to make those evaluations.

    Champlin's work, however exciting his writing and our own eagerness to believe, tends to not stand up to 21st century standards. Not surprising, many of our APUG contributors have better labs than Champlin, Harvey,and many others could have dreamt of. Perversely, the best work of the pre-war era seems to have been overlooked, while the sketchy, dodgy, and bizarre has survived.

    Anybody else have Lowe's book ?

  5. #15

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    "Champlin's work, however exciting his writing and our own eagerness to believe, tends to not stand up to 21st century standards. Not surprising, many of our APUG contributors have better labs than Champlin, Harvey,and many others could have dreamt of. Perversely, the best work of the pre-war era seems to have been overlooked, while the sketchy, dodgy, and bizarre has survived. "

    Well said. Your formula for E-10 jogged my memory a bit and I found a copy of it in my filing stash. This formula, from darkroompro.com, calls for:
    glycin 15g
    sulfite 70g
    all others the same

    What made me think about this dev was the dev time of 1 hour, yes, 1 hour at a 1+10 dilution!

    I'll try to find the link.

    Sorry, link is no more.

    DF, do you have times & dilutions for E-10?
    Last edited by jim appleyard; 05-08-2008 at 05:30 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: addition

  6. #16
    df cardwell's Avatar
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    Jim

    I think a starting place would be to dilute E10 1+3
    and develop as if it were D-76H 1+1.

    D-76H 1+1
    Metol 1.25
    Sulfite 50.
    Borax 1


    Edwal 10 1+3
    Metol 1.25
    Sulfite 25.
    Glycin 1.25
    Borax 2.5


    What do you think ?

    I KNOW it won't blow up !
    (will it ?)

    don

  7. #17

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    Thanks. Last I knew, D-76H times were the same as D-76, so I'll use those.
    It's only film and were all so rich these days...

    If you don't here from me again, it blew up.

  8. #18
    Lachlan Young's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by df cardwell View Post
    One of the difficulties of appreciating vintage formulas, including well known and well used developers today, is the absence of a measured and competent evaluation from their own time, and the methods and standards use to make those evaluations.

    Champlin's work, however exciting his writing and our own eagerness to believe, tends to not stand up to 21st century standards. Not surprising, many of our APUG contributors have better labs than Champlin, Harvey,and many others could have dreamt of. Perversely, the best work of the pre-war era seems to have been overlooked, while the sketchy, dodgy, and bizarre has survived.

    Anybody else have Lowe's book ?
    I have been meaning to acquire a copy of that book for the better part of eighteen months...

    There are 4 copies available on Abebooks at the moment - ranging from about $25 to $100 - has the book ever been reprinted since 1939? I think I will try and see if I can get hold of a copy by inter-library loan - there must be a library somewhere in the UK that has a copy...

    I should add that your reduced agitation techniques have proved very useful, and work brilliantly well with both Rodinal and Aculux 3.

    I will update this when I locate a copy of Lowe's book!

    Lachlan

    P.S. I did a quick COPAC search (all the academic libraries in the UK) and it turned up a lone copy in the National Library of Scotland.
    Last edited by Lachlan Young; 05-09-2008 at 03:46 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Updated Information

  9. #19
    df cardwell's Avatar
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    Hi Lachlan

    Watcha up to ?

    Those agitation techniques aren't mine... but a bunch of real old timers would be happy they work for you !

  10. #20

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    Here are my film development times for well seasoned edwal 12, 75 degrees
    3 inversions to start then 1 inversion every 30 seconds:

    Tmax 100 rated 125 5.5 mints
    Tmax 400 rated 400 6.5 mints
    TriX rated 650 4.5 mints
    Neopan 400 rated 400 4.5 mints
    Forma Action Pan 400 rated 320 5 mints.

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