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  1. #31
    df cardwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    Just been reading Lowe's Patents, interesting stuff.

    Ian
    United States Patent US 2164280 (c.1939) is VERY interesting.

    Lowe advocated using thiocyanates in small quantities to get the finest grain from E-12 & E-20. Kodak used a thiocycanate in DK20 (a developer similar to D76). Lowe typically gave complete directions how to tune Edwal developers, and explained that different films might need different amounts of thiocyanate. Kodak abandoned the stuff as followed the D-25 route. AS Troop touched on in Cookbook, fogging always was a problem, and mentioned the use of Sodium Chloride to achieve Microdol.

    And here is Lowe talking about just that ! Neat stuff, and talking about adding glycin to metol as needed for the proper contrast.

    If I hadn't spent my scanner fund on a camera last week, I'd scan some of my Lowe literature. Just have to wait !

  2. #32
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    I want to thank df and Paul for the above posts. I didnt know PF is selling 777 so thanks for that too. I think I am going to mix up some E-12 and give it a go. I would still be interested in the literature that you have df when you get a chance to post it.

    Patrick

  3. #33
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by df cardwell View Post
    United States Patent US 2164280 (c.1939) is VERY interesting.

    Lowe advocated using thiocyanates in small quantities to get the finest grain from E-12 & E-20. Kodak used a thiocycanate in DK20 (a developer similar to D76). Lowe typically gave complete directions how to tune Edwal developers, and explained that different films might need different amounts of thiocyanate. Kodak abandoned the stuff as followed the D-25 route. AS Troop touched on in Cookbook, fogging always was a problem, and mentioned the use of Sodium Chloride to achieve Microdol.

    And here is Lowe talking about just that ! Neat stuff, and talking about adding glycin to metol as needed for the proper contrast.

    If I hadn't spent my scanner fund on a camera last week, I'd scan some of my Lowe literature. Just have to wait !
    That's the Patent I'm referring to, I've got it on my list to read in greater detail. You should look at Ilford's Technical Paper P10 released in I think 1965, it's about Fine Grain developers, it advocates adding Ammonium Chloride to developers like ID-11, ID-2 to achieve finer grain.

    Ian

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrickjames View Post
    I want to thank df and Paul for the above posts. I didnt know PF is selling 777 so thanks for that too. I think I am going to mix up some E-12 and give it a go. I would still be interested in the literature that you have df when you get a chance to post it.

    Patrick
    The only advice that I can offer is not to make any judgments about Edwal 12 until it has been well seasoned, at least 4 rolls. I also found that the posted times are too long, about 30% less works for me.

  5. #35
    df cardwell's Avatar
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    Amen, Paul. With the 2.5 grams of Glycin I use, D76 times are a pretty good place to begin.

    I soak 4 rolls of outdated film in the developer after it is mixed, and cooling.

    I suppose one could concoct a 'starter', and be clinical about it.
    But 'seasoning' adds a sense of alchemy to balance living in the 21st century.
    "One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid,
    and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"

    -Bertrand Russell

  6. #36
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Howell View Post
    Any info on edwal 20?
    Edwal 20 uses a proprietary developing agent Gradol. I do have some information on Lowe's synthesis of developing agents, but haven't had a chance to go through then properly.

    If at the same time as Lowe was working, Kendall at Ilford was experimenting with Phenidone, research in the UK would have been put on hold during the war but later Ilford Patents show Phenidone being used in combination with Glycin, I guess this was the work for Ilfosol.

    There were a lot more European formulae which were based around similar criteria as Lowe's developers, and Atomal, Promicrol, Johnson's Meritol baesed developers are all worth looking at.

    Ian

  7. #37

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    [QUOTE=Ian Grant;633628]Edwal 20 uses a proprietary developing agent Gradol. A couple of years ago I wrote Edwal, the current owners, and asked for information about Gardol but never got a reply.

  8. #38
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    There is/was some Gradol for sale in the US, just do a Google search for Edwal Gradol. I say it a few minutes ago. My guess is itmay not be any good now.

    Ian

  9. #39
    df cardwell's Avatar
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    Here's Lowe, on Edwal 12 & 20,
    from 'Developers, fine grain and otherwise'

    "One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid,
    and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"

    -Bertrand Russell

  10. #40
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    I have some vintage Edwal Super 12. Who knows about the glycin in it! I mixed up some very vintage glycin-only developer and it actually developed. Added minor amount of Dektol into it to make a weak
    "130" and got a development time of 15-20 minutes. Perhaps with correct %ages of M-Q and alkali it will work well
    maybe too will the Edwal 12.
    I bought it to try thinking it was a compensating developer since it says on the front good for strobe photography..as produces long scale..extra speed.......extra contrast? I didn't think a developer giving more contrast would produce a longer scale. ?
    1/4 to 1/2 normal exposure 8-15 diameter enlargements depending on film, negative density.
    No overdevelopment for strobe lighting ..to produce a longer scale?
    Perhaps the glycin is kaput and is now a longer scale developer?


    Does long scale=compensating

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