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  1. #61
    sun of sand's Avatar
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    I did my little test of Xtol again. correct exposure. snip test of the 4x5 for proper development
    first test was Xtol Straight ..this time Xtol 1:3
    E12 is, to my eyes, plainly superior.
    nicer grain
    much better tonality
    much sharper
    bit more contrast.

    Xtol 1:3 is sharper than straight but quite a bit grainier
    Edges still appear rounded off
    E12 is very sharp in comparison.

    Some people -somehwere else- say E12 is not an accutance developer and, in fact, causes a loss ..surprising loss
    If rodinal is much sharper than E12
    wow

    Tonality with Xtol is kinda dumpy. All the tones seem to merge and with E12 they're distinct.
    E12 makes a more "lifelike" print.



    It's just plainly better. With dull, rainy, overcast, soft lighting it is plainly better

    Now I have to compare Rodinal one day. ...and do another test of E12 to be sure ..and blow up the photos to really talk about grain differences ...and

  2. #62

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    E12 makes a more "lifelike" print.



    It's just plainly better. With dull, rainy, overcast, soft lighting it is plainly better

    Now I have to compare Rodinal one day. ...and do another test of E12 to be sure ..and blow up the photos to really talk about grain differences ...and[/QUOTE]

    E12 is much better than Rodinal for high speed films such as Trix or HP5, for high contast subjects try 777. I used E 20 in the 60s, you think E 12 is fine grain, if I could out that Gardol is.

  3. #63
    patrickjames's Avatar
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    What are you guys using for a replenishment scheme? How much for each roll of film?

    Patrick

  4. #64
    df cardwell's Avatar
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    Some people -somehwere else- say E12 is not an acceptance developer

    PPD has the rap of a non sharp developer. And it is true, when it is the sole developer.

    HOWEVER, E-12 does not use PPD as a developer, rather as an 'energizer', allowing glycin to function at a low pH (normally, it needs a carbonate environment). Lowe describes the mechanism in E12 (and other Lowe developers) as primarily a sulfite / metol developer while the glycin dials in a certain amount of contrast.

    With both metol and glycin, PPD DOES encourage acutance effects in replenished developers; see the lengthy extract of Crawley's speculation on how this works in Anchell & Troop's Film Cookbook.
    "One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid,
    and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"

    -Bertrand Russell

  5. #65
    sun of sand's Avatar
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    I think it's damn sharp. I like the stuff. I'm buying more. A case. It's capacity probably isn't like new but eh

    I really have to get that book.

  6. #66
    df cardwell's Avatar
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    Portraiture in a 3 Developer system

    My normal film is TMY, and regardless of the scene, I expose it at 400. Makes it easy for my little brain to not be overwhelmed badly in the field when I see a cool picture. I use 3 different developers with TMY, each with a specific agitation pattern, to give me the negative that will express what I want to show about the scene.

    In direct sunlight, I usually use XTOL 1+2 and minimal agitation, and the shadows are full, the midtones are right where they want to be and have very strong local contrast. The highlights are harmonious. Obviously, my world is more strings and woodwinds, not brass bands.

    Indirect light, or dappled highlights, Rodinal 1+50, with minimal agitation. Rodinal lifts the natural shoulder of TMY a little higher than does the Xtol, and makes -for me- a normal negative.

    When the light is indirect, flat, or overcast, Edwal 12 (made with 2.5 g of glycin) lifts the highlights a bit higher than does Rodinal.

    My own feeling is that tone control is more important than grain or sharpness; the balance is what I'm looking for. This 'system' is worked out for portraiture, incident reading, and Ilford paper. I need to do very little burning or dodging, and most negatives print without a filter, in a moderate contrast developer like LPD. This approach works well for me, whatever its limitations, because I'm a pretty intuitive photographer and can't begin to keep numbers in my head when it is time to make pictures. This way, I can simply shoot the pictures, knowing there is a way to develop the film, and mark the film bag when I'm done with a + (meaning the light was flat and the film needs Edwal) or o (the light was hot, and gets Xtol. It usually doesn't take long to remember that no marking means Rodinal, and I have a note on the wall of the darkroom to remind me.

    I ALWAYS shoot a short, test roll which gets developed first. I'm an airhead, not a fool.

    The comparative curves are accurate. I normally see a threshold white with MGFB/MGFBW at a 1.5 density: I print to Zone X, not IX. Obviously I care a great deal about Zone VI, not so much about the deep shadows. It works... FOR ME !

    "One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid,
    and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"

    -Bertrand Russell

  7. #67
    Lee L's Avatar
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    Don,

    Very useful post. Thanks!

    Lee

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrickjames View Post
    What are you guys using for a replenishment scheme? How much for each roll of film?

    Patrick
    For 35mm 50cc for 24 and 100cc for 36 or 120. I just dump and replace after use.

  9. #69
    bowzart's Avatar
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    Somehow, I replied to this and it disappeared. Hmm.

    It appears that you are getting a bit of speed boost with the xtol. When do we expect density in Zone 0?- by definition, we don't. What would it look like to increase the speed by a stop which would roughly superimpose the toe of the xtol and the E12, then increase the time w/xtol to try to match the slope in the straight line? What would the shoulder look like? Then, of course, we have that variable glycin concentration which could play into it very significantly.

    Of course, even if we could match up the curves, we might hate what it looks like. I think some of what I do in practice, as opposed to theory, may sometimes conform sort of to the curve shape that you are showing with the xtol; you know, generous exposure and more conservative development.

    Always, we are working with overall contrasts on our graph paper, but the magic happens in the local contrasts, and that can't be shown on a grid very well.

    Thanks a lot for showing these curves. I was surprised at the classic shape; I don't use TMY myself (not enough grit). I had seen curves that suggested an increase in slope in the highlights, which is clearly at odds with what we see here.

    Larry

  10. #70
    bowzart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Howell View Post
    For 35mm 50cc for 24 and 100cc for 36 or 120. I just dump and replace after use.
    Paul,

    Do you use any kind of controls to verify these amounts?

    Thanks,

    Larry



 

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