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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by herb View Post
    I happen to have one of the versalab washers, and he says
    run it 1/2gpm for an hour and let the prints sit in it for a few
    hours and run it again for an hour. this will use 60 gallons of
    water, not counting the 11 gallons to fill the washer.
    Worst case, one 11x14 print at a time, that 60 gallons would
    do me 80 11x14s. Three 11x14s at a time and that 60 gallons
    would do me 120 11x14s. And no 11 gallon overhead.

    My method employs an alternate two tray cycle with
    separators; something of a horizontal slot washer. Less
    than 2 gallons will wash 4 11x14s. That's 4 minutes at
    1/2 gallon per minute; one 11x4 print per minute at
    that 1/2 gallon per minute. Dan

  2. #12
    CBG
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    I have read a couple of times recently that very long soak times are deleterious to printing paper. In a quick search I couldn't turn up any original research, but I had saved some commentary from Richard Knoppow who seems to be well versed in source data. According to Richard Knoppow, "Long soaks tend to cause separation of the emulsion and Baryta layer from the paper support and can damage the paper itself."

    C

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBG View Post
    I have read a couple of times recently that very long soak times are deleterious to printing paper. In a quick search I couldn't turn up any original research, but I had saved some commentary from Richard Knoppow who seems to be well versed in source data. According to Richard Knoppow, "Long soaks tend to cause separation of the emulsion and Baryta layer from the paper support and can damage the paper itself."

    C
    I believe the theory is that the constant running of the water during the cycle is unnecessary. Diffusion will permit the fixer to leave the paper. You still was for the same time, but change the water once, maybe twice instead of having the constant flow.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBG View Post
    I have read a couple of times recently that very long soak times are deleterious to printing paper. In a quick search I couldn't turn up any original research, but I had saved some commentary from Richard Knoppow who seems to be well versed in source data. According to Richard Knoppow, "Long soaks tend to cause separation of the emulsion and Baryta layer from the paper support and can damage the paper itself."

    C
    Intermittent replacement of the wash water with fresh water can, and in fact should, result in shorter wash times than continuous flow for the same final hypo content of the paper.
    Gadget Gainer

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by CBG View Post
    "Long soaks tend to cause separation of the emulsion
    and Baryta layer from the paper support and can
    damage the paper itself." C
    Long soaks present NO problems. I've been using Slavich,
    Kentmere Bromide, Emaks, and Arista Classic; all Glossy,
    DW FB. The last soak I give is overnight and well into
    the next day, minimum 12 plus hours. NO problems.

    Also, although I do not now use, are Forte Polywarmtone
    and Kentmere Fineprint. NO problems. Dan

  6. #16

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    Agree with Dan above...I recently had to leave prints on Ilford FB glossy soaking for over 48 hours due to a family crisis. I was careful to squeegee them gently and they were perfect...no problems at all.

  7. #17
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    The best information on this subject can be found in the writings of David Vestal. Why? Because he actually tested various methods.

    The Vestal technique I use is to put the prints into a plain water holding bath following the fix. After I am done printing, I transfer them to a tray of plain water while I dump the printing chemicals, rinse the trays, and prepare for washing. I set up a tray of hypoclear and a tray of dilute selenium toner. I transfer the prints to the hypoclear and let them soak with occasional agitation for about three minutes. Then I transfer them to the selenium. After about five minutes, with occasional agitation, I move them back to the hypoclear while I put the selenium away and rinse that tray. Then I move the prints to a tray of fresh water, agitate briefly, and then let them soak for about five minutes. Then to another tray of fresh water for another five minute soak. After six trays of fresh water, I squeegee them off and lay them out to dry on fiberglass screens.

    Total water usage, including the holding bath and hypoclear, is about 18 quarts! Total time is 30-45 minutes.

    Vestal also did a test where he used an "archival washer" for a short period, and then let the prints soak overnight before a second brief time in the archival washer. He found that this was just as effective as a long time in the archival washer but obviously used much less water.

    There are two issues with prolonged soaking. RC papers consist of a thin layer of paper covered on both sides with plastic. The recommended processing cycle is so brief that water is unable to penetrate very far into the actual paper layer. But if the paper soaks too long, the paper layer will become contaminated with residual chemicals in the soaking bath leading to premature failure of the paper.

    The other issue is that some papers contain optical brighteners to liven up the highlights. Prolonged soaking can remove these brighteners leading to less dramatic prints. I might add that the better papers do not include artificial brighteners, so this problem tends to be associated with less expensive papers.
    Louie

  8. #18

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    The emulsion on Kentmere's Kentona will sometimes come right off the paper if you soak it overnight. Don't get me wrong, emulsion lifts are fun, but only with Polaroid...

  9. #19

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    While not a direct answer to your photography needs, you might also investigate water saving methods for your other uses of it. Collecting rain water from the roof comes to mind. Also recycling wash (gray) water from the laundry.

    I have a relative that has a small stainless tank that looks like it came off a small milk tank truck, maybe a thousand gallons; he collects and recycles water in it.

    Anyhow, just a thought.

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