Try to eliminate variables so don't try to judge print values under dim amber lighting in the darkroom. Develop the print to completion and then view the print under your "normal" viewing conditions. Base the exposure on those values taking dry down into account.
Yes, if you learned to control print tone by observation.
Like being able to tune a violin by ear instead of a meter.
Ilford's MG, a great paper otherwise, rewards time and temperature workers.
If you varied the ratio of exposure and development to fine tune the image,
that no longer works; it penalizes a traditionally skilled craftsman.
I understand what you are saying, and it is a valid way of working -- one just has to mentally account for changes in the fix the same way one would have to do to take in account dry-down, future viewing conditions, etc. (since what one sees in the developer tray is nothing like seeing the final print anyway.)
Vaughn
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At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can be a good day of exercise.
Perhaps there might be a grudging acceptance that a different point of view is not necessarily grossly inferior.
(If there has been an official dogma pronouncement, forgive me. I have been away.)
What one sees in the developer tray might very well be what one sees on the wall.
It all depends on what you believe, and how you work,
and how one integrates and manages the variables that make expressive work POSSIBLE.
With papers like Elite and Portriga, and others before them,
it was possible to judge highlights and shadows to a nicety,
and practice Factorial Development as Adams discussed.
This is not dark magic, but simple craft. See David Vestal.
If this violates your personal belief system, I apologize.
Do what works for you. I learned to print over a long period, a long time ago.
What works for me, works for me.
Responding to Suzanne's question, I answered honestly. Working with Ilford's MGs is different than working with any other papers I have ever worked with.
There is no choice but to develop to a given time, fix, and turn on the lights.
It is a lovely paper. It is a pain in the neck.
I will use it until I run out of it, be thankful I have it,
and hope that I can lay hands on a sufficient quantity of goodness-knows-what
that lets me work the way I prefer to work, the way I am capable of working.
I wonder sometimes how Edward Weston was so massively productive
without benefit of all the fancy toys we litter the darkroom with today.
Trusting his eyes, and his judgement. How quaint, how primitive !
I wonder how a violinist can compensate for a room's humidity
and changing temperature of his fiddle,
or the shifting acoustics of a hall,
and still play with perfect intonation, and great expression.
Well Don your not the only one who is driven to distraction by Ilford MG. I thought it was just me LOL.
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Everyone gets everything he wants. I wanted a mission, and for my sins
they gave me one. Brought it up to me like room service. - Willard
Printing as a belief system...no wonder you talk in terms of dogma! Believers in a particular dogma do tend to get upset when their particular dogma is questioned. I find your suggestion that those who do not follow your particular dogma (by developing to completion, for example) do not use their eyes and judgement to be typical of a true believer. But as I said, whatever works best for the individual.
But I do agree that what one sees in the developer can be intuitively used to determine what the print will look like on the wall. I was just stating the obvious that the print in the developer and the print on the wall do not physically look the same.
I have never used AA's factorial development method. I approached it in another way...seeing the fixed, but wet, print in a "standard" lighting condition to intuitively determine how to make the next print of it. The source of my intuition being years of printing to reach an understanding of how changing the various factors affects the print, including development time. I see this as very similar to your approach in its essence, just not in practice.
Vaughn
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At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can be a good day of exercise.
Well Don your not the only one who is driven to distraction by Ilford MG. I thought it was just me LOL.
I second that. Having been away from the darkroom for a number of years, I found I had to learn some new skills, as the materials available behaved much differently from the "old" days. And yes, Don, I also learned to print years ago the way you describe. Welcome back.
Bob
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"I always take a camera, That way I never have to say 'Gee, look at that - I wish I had a camera'" -Joe Clark, H.B.S.S.
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