Anyone know a lith paper that doesn't have banding issues?

[Jersey Vic]

I'd also like to add that the banding has always been in the shadows and has followed the texture of the paper, which is horizonal when the paper is in a vertical orientation.

Thanks Again
V.

[tmike]

Originally Posted by Jersey Vic

I've posted a print with the banding in the shadows.

Thanks, Vic; I hadn't imagined that appearance.

Relatively inexperienced guy thinking out loud here; are the dark areas associated with peaks or valleys in the texture of the paper? Or random? I'm wondering if the high spots on a rougher-textured paper would receive more agitation relative to the low spots... AND if so, if you were to agitate side to side, 90 degrees to your usual agitiation orientation, would the banding then appear to be vertical?

[tim rudman]

Originally Posted by Jersey Vic

I'd also like to add that the banding has always been in the shadows and has followed the texture of the paper, which is horizonal when the paper is in a vertical orientation.

Thanks Again
V.

Hmm. I looked at your scan Vic, and I'm not sure i can see 'banding', which I interpret quite differently. It looks to me like emerging blacks snatched just before they are ready, and with the effect amplified by the texture of the paper.

Each emulsion has its own characteristics, some are smooth, some grainy and some coarse and you need to find which suits your vision of the image you are printing. If you then factor in surface texture it becomes more complicated.

Have you tried this image on the gloss finish? If so it would be worth making a few small area tests at different snatch points as this will have a big effect on what you see in the shadow tones. Its all about personal interpretation and sometimes an earlier or later snatch can be quite rewarding. Its always worth doing though, if only to get a feel for what the paper can do.
Tim

[Jersey Vic]

Mike and Tim;

Thanks for your thoughts and answers. I went and looked at both lith versions I made of Campo print as well as 3 different lith versions of this image:
http://www.apug.org/gallery/showphot...81&ppuser=2517
Can you see the density lines going through the shadows from left to right? In all cases (with this, my first batch of Foma 542) the progression of the development of the blacks follows the same pattern as the texture of the paper. Even in cases where the blacks are 'fully developed', they're 'denser' in the patten I've described, horizontally when the paper is held in a 'portrait'/verticle orientation. And to answer your question Mike, I'm pretty careful about changing the direction of my tray rocking. It's still a nice paper and should be fine for some applications, not ideal for others. C'est la Vie.

Thanks Again and Be Well

Victor

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Hey Victor,

I looked at all your scans, and honestly, if you hadn't pointed it out, I would have never noticed those patterns. When I got banding (with Kentona primarily, and an outdated box of Polygrade) it was as though somebody brought out a ruler and made lead pencil lines across the paper. Butt ugly, and sad, because the color of especially the Polygrade was very beautiful. Like the Emaks Grade 3 but darker and warmer. Dark chocolate comes to mind.
I definitely think that lith printing brings out these anomalies in papers more than regular chemistry. If you don't like your 542 for lith printing, you will love it in Ansco 130, dilute (1+3 at 75-80*F).

I just had the opportunity to print, after a two week hiatus. It was awesome to count seconds to the metronome again, while listening to an old JJ Cale CD, which made the counting a challenge but the Scotch tasted better... Fomatone 132 is a nice matte paper for lith printing. Similar color to the 542, but with a smooth finish. Incidentally, if you do try out the Ilford Warmtone, try both the glossy and semi-matte as they produce dissimilar results. The semi-matte has a grainier appearance, while the glossy is creamy smooth. Both beautiful, but different.

I hope that helps. Take it easy,

- Thomas

[Andrew Moxom]

Bob, can you confirm that the NEW Oriental G4 is 'lithable'? For some reason, I thought all new oriental papers were non lithable? If that's not the case, it surely is a well kept secret!

[tim rudman]

Originally Posted by Jersey Vic

Mike and Tim;

Thanks for your thoughts and answers. I went and looked at both lith versions I made of Campo print as well as 3 different lith versions of this image:
http://www.apug.org/gallery/showphot...81&ppuser=2517
Can you see the density lines going through the shadows from left to right? In all cases (with this, my first batch of Foma 542) the progression of the development of the blacks follows the same pattern as the texture of the paper. Even in cases where the blacks are 'fully developed', they're 'denser' in the patten I've described, horizontally when the paper is held in a 'portrait'/verticle orientation. And to answer your question Mike, I'm pretty careful about changing the direction of my tray rocking. It's still a nice paper and should be fine for some applications, not ideal for others. C'est la Vie.

Thanks Again and Be Well

Victor

I see them now Vic. They weren't too apparent on the previous scan. This is a coating effect and probably more obvious on a textured paper. Lith printing does show up any minor coating flaws which might not be apparent with normal processing. These may vary from batch to batch and when these effects do show up they tend to appear, as in this case, in the emerging blacks before they are fully developed. This is the point where they are most vulnerable to uneveness. This is logical given the accelerating progress of infectious development in this tonal range - but still annoying! You might try higher dilution and/or slightly earlier or later snatch, but of course the interpretation will be somewhat different. Alternatively, a different batch, keeping the rest of this batch for a different image without such a large expanse of near blacks with similar density. A different image might print quite easily.
Tim

[Jersey Vic]

Thanks Tim, Andrew and Thomas. Appreciate all of your input on this.
I love the term coating effect. As in- "it's not a bug, it's a feature."
Still, it's a fabulous paper. On to the Slavich!

[Andrew Moxom]

Victor, you will like the Slavich. It does not produce warm lith tones in aristalith, but nonetheless has it's uses. BTW, Bob Carnie recommended Oriental G4 as lithable. Was that a reference to the 'New G4' or the old? If its the new G4, I'll try it.

[tim rudman]

Originally Posted by Jersey Vic

Thanks Tim, Andrew and Thomas. Appreciate all of your input on this.
I love the term coating effect. As in- "it's not a bug, it's a feature."
Still, it's a fabulous paper. On to the Slavich!

Well these effects are features, and when used with the right image give it its unique character.

The Slavitch paper is very different. It is very cold in tone and very graphic. It can be hard to control but as mentioned above the new Arista lith does a better job on it than some other lith developers. You might like to try bleach and lith redevelopment with it too.
Tim