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  1. #1
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Color C-41 film in B&W chemistry

    I developed a roll of Fuji Superia 200 C-41 color film in Pyrocat-MC the other day and was surprised by the results I got.
    It is difficult to print through the dense film base, but other than that it seems to work. I had no idea it did actually work, but it was a 'what the hey' kind of roll with nothing important on it.

    Why does it work? That is what I'd like to know.

    Attached example of a neg scan. I made a print but ended up ripping it.
    Am I better off printing with graded paper? Or should I use VC with/without filtration?

    And would it work to develop a slide film this way too? I would imagine that the film base would be a lot easier to work with.

    Thankful for help.

    - Thomas
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 017.jpg  
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  2. #2
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Why does it work? Color film contains silver halide emulsions similar to those used in B&W film. So, you make a silver image in a B&W developer, but no dyes form.

    There was no scan attached.

    Use graded paper, as the yellow-orange tint will change the contrast of a VC paper.

    You can develop slide films to give a B&W negative with a fairly high fog (IIRC), but I don't know why the film base would be easier to work with. B&W and Color are pretty much the same support in many cases.

    PE

  3. #3
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    PE,

    I was silently hoping that a slide film would have a clear film base and not introduce the red/orange tint of a print color film. I'll probably try it anyway, just for fun...

    Thanks for your help. Attachment should be there now.

    - Thomas
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  4. #4
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Oh, slide film is still yellow-orange, but not as dense. There are 2 sources. Negative films have a yellow filter layer + a set of masking couplers that add up to yellow orange. Slide films have only the yellow filter layer which is, yellow, and less dense than the color in negative films. It has nothing to do with the support. That is what confused me.

    PE

  5. #5
    bowzart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    Am I better off printing with graded paper? Or should I use VC with/without filtration?
    - Thomas
    My students often ignore my "Bogus Film Alert" and buy it by mistake at Walmart or someplace like that where the only kinds of film are sold are those that can be processed on site. They then reveal their insufficient understanding of the importance of knowing your film/developer pair's process needs and blithely develop it in HC110 b for 5 minutes just as they would HP5. We have interesting conversations about this.

    Since they only use VC paper that's all we know about. They have occasionally been able to get fairly gritty but reasonable prints. They need very long exposures and high filter numbers. I suspect that regardless of which paper you use, the exposures will be long. I also suspect that as PE suggests, the graded would work more rationally since the interaction between the base color and the filters will be weird. The orange color used with blue sensitive paper would add a lot of neutral density but would probably at least be consistent through the grades. At least, I think so.

    I think I'll pass on trying this myself.

  6. #6
    rwyoung's Avatar
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    Or dig into your stash of Panalure paper. Just turn out the safelight first.
    Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things! http://rwyoung.wordpress.com

  7. #7
    bowzart's Avatar
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    Is anyone making something like Panalure anymore?

  8. #8
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Fotokemika makes one for direct positive, which means you could use your slides, or make an in camera photograph directly. Other than that, work the filters or buy old stock of Panalure. AFAIK.

    - Thomas
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  9. #9
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    IDK if the Fotokemika paper is panchromatic. Is it?

    PE

  10. #10
    rwyoung's Avatar
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    I don't believe the FK paper is pan.
    Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things! http://rwyoung.wordpress.com



 

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