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  1. #11
    glbeas's Avatar
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    I got a nitrogen tank for $60, a regulator for $40 and a refill for $14. The setup will last near forever andin nonexplosive.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by glbeas
    I got a nitrogen tank for $60, a regulator for $40 and a refill for $14. The setup will last near forever andin nonexplosive.
    Bravo!

    I'm glad to see I'm not the only "crazy person" doing this. I invested about the same amount way back in 1975 for air brush purposes. When I suggested using this setup for topping off developer on rec.photo.darkroom, I recieved a lot of criticism for having "dangerous" materials around. Of course any material under high pressure deserves careful handling but I know a lot of artists who use bottled gas. I use Argon. It is as cheap as nitrogen and more available around here, with all the welding and boats et c.

    I use two regulators: one for gross bottle pressure and a second in series for more exact work. The second regulates from 2 to 50 psi and yields repeatable results with the air brush. Two-stage regulators are available at a higher cost. I have not done air brush for a decade now. Anyone interested in the equipment?

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole
    One explanation for the "sucked-in" airfilled and "bulging" butaned bottles could be temperature changes. I do have a very old unopened bottle of Ilfosol-S whith sucked-in sides, so oxygen absorption is definitely taking place...

    When you fill up a bottle wit hbutane, the gass expands. That cools it down. When you close the bottle, the butane is still below ambient temperature. As the gas warms up, it expands - bulging bottles!
    Ya but the whole should equalize in pressure over time. Pulling the gas into solution. So then it should end up someplace in between.

  4. #14

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    Well nitrogen shouldn't be anymore dangerous then C02 used by many people at home for everything from soda to beer. When you consider the average fast food place hires teenagers and they manage to keep from blowing themselves up it's not that hard. OTOH I'm sure every year some frat kid gets hurt but then I'd never suggest handling anything under pressure when drunk.

  5. #15

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    The only practical danger of handling inert gasses like argon or nitrogen is the possiblity of the cylindar falling over and the head getting knocked off. The resulting projectile could result in death or injury. Chaining the cylindar properly to the wall will eliminate this possibility.

  6. #16
    Ole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert
    Ya but the whole should equalize in pressure over time. Pulling the gas into solution. So then it should end up someplace in between.
    Butane doesn't dissolve very well in water - or in water-based solutions. The only way it could equalise is through leaking caps or diffusion through the bottle. Even water diffuses through plastic faster than butane does.
    Butane is also surprisingly little explosive, and should be quite safe in the amounts used to top up a bottle. A single-use lighter contains enough butane to last several years if only used for filling bottles...

    Another benefit of butane is that it liquefies easily, so relatively low pressure is needed to store it as a liquid. If your darkroom ever gets REALLY cold, you may see your butane condense to a fluid. I've only seen it outdoors...
    Nitrogen needs a lot more pressure for compact storage - that's why nitrogen bottles are so much heavier. IMO the wight and pressure of nitrogen bottles make these far less safe than a bottle of butane!
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  7. #17
    Jorge Oliveira's Avatar
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    I've only seen it outdoors...
    Ole

    I think you mean it in Norway, right?



    Jorge O

  8. #18
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    Does anyone use tetraflouroethane to top off their chemicals? I've been using it, only because I don't have another source of relatively non-reactive gas. The only thing I dont' know is if it has any effect on what I'm storing since nearly half of it always goes into solution. I imagine the only thing that could oxidize the developer is the flourine, but I seriously doubt thats happening. So does it just dissolve into solution and live happily ever after, or is it having some effect that I'm not aware of? I havn't noticed any loss of effectiveness in my solutions, but until recently I also havn't been very meticulous in the darkroom either.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverpixels5
    Does anyone use tetraflouroethane ............I havn't noticed any loss of effectiveness in my solutions, but until recently I also havn't been very meticulous in the darkroom either.
    Hey, join my TOT club (Top Off Testing) and age your own pepsi bottle test containers with tetraflouroethane. Glass beer bottles would be even better.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by avandesande
    The only practical danger of handling inert gasses like argon or nitrogen is the possiblity of the cylindar falling over and the head getting knocked off. The resulting projectile could result in death or injury. Chaining the cylindar properly to the wall will eliminate this possibility.
    Quite, thats why it lives behind the film dryer accessible from the edge of the sink. You can see it in my darkroom pictures if you look for it.

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