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  1. #21
    dr bob's Avatar
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    "The only practical danger of handling inert gasses like argon or nitrogen is the possiblity of the cylindar falling over and the head getting knocked off. The resulting projectile could result in death or injury. Chaining the cylindar properly to the wall will eliminate this possibility."

    Yes! That should have been mentioned. I have a little stand to hold the cylinder. Otherwise I lay it down on the floor.

  2. #22
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  3. #23
    Ole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge Oliveira
    I've only seen it outdoors...
    Ole

    I think you mean it in Norway, right?



    Jorge O
    Ehm - yes. But much of the midwest can be really cold in the winter - unlike Brazil

    I've even seen liquid propane when I was in the army in North Norway... Temperature went down to below -47°C: I don't know how cold, because the thermometer was frozen solid.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggie
    another risk, albeit small, is if any form or a oil or grease should hit the top of the cylinder at the connectrion. It can cause it to start a fire and explode. Helps to have had a brother in law who was a fireman.
    No! Neither Argon not Nitrogen are flamable in that respect. In fact, sudden release of pressure of these systems will cause a cooling effect - sometimes so great that the temperature can approach the temperature of liquid gases. The main problems stem from flying objects.

    On the other hand high pressure air can certainly cause a fire if mishandled. That is one of the most underestimated hazards in my old engineering business. And forget hp Oxygen! Oxygen has to be one of the most hazardous materials in daily use. No smileys here. I worked with these compressed gasses at pressures exceeding 18,000 psi without incident, but I have been witness to oxygen fires (read:explosions). I was commissioned by the U.S. Navy to solve a problem on their electrolytic oxygen generators used aboard submarines. I now hold the patent on a new design still in use as far as I know. Because the generators also make Hydrogen at high pressures, no one else wanted to take on the project I found that the problem was _not_ the Hydrogen but the Oxygen. Actually, Hydrogen is a pussy-cat compared to hp Oxygen, which is unpredictable. Hp air has similar properties.

    Whew! Got that off my chest.

  5. #25
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    Yea hp nigtrogen is pretty harmless. I used to fill liquid nitrogen tanks for the grad students back in college, and the room would fill with nitrogen...needless to say it got pretty cold in there. Actually the worse thing that ever happened was when one of the valve knobs was loose and actually came off when i was opening it. Liquid nitrogen sprayed all over the palm of my hand (with rawhide gloves on). I had a pretty good burn on my hand from that....
    RL Foley

  6. #26
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    Ole

    - 47 C? My record was - 18 C in Munich, and that was cold enought...

    Jorge O

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggie
    another risk, albeit small, is if any form or a oil or grease should hit the top of the cylinder at the connectrion. It can cause it to start a fire and explode. Helps to have had a brother in law who was a fireman.
    You are thinking of the strict warnings on Oxygen bottles against allowing any oil or grease in or on the fittings or connections. A drop of oil in O2 at those pressures will ignite sponaneously and explosively. Fortunately we don't have to deal with that stuff in the darkroom.

  8. #28
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    nope not thinking of oxygen. one fire my brother in law had to go to was one where some student had brought his lunch with him to the local high school. with his greasy hands (don't know what he was eating) he was switching out the regulator to a new tank of gas in the chem lab for the teacher. the grease of his hands reacted cheically with the head and what residue was there and burst into flames.

    I work with acetylene quite a bit, and oxygen. After his warning, I keep a loose plastic wrap over the head when not using them, to prevent any kind of contamination.
    Non Digital Diva

  9. #29

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    This discussion, which started with using butane or propane to top off bottles, got side tracked to compressed nitrogen because butane is too dangerous!!! After reading all this about tank hazards I feel safer with butane and I don't have to chain it to the wall or keep my greasy hands away from it. All I have to do it keep matches away. I have been using candles for a special printing effect but I won't do that any more;-)

    I am being a wise a** but it seems to me that butane is still easier, cheaper and maybe just as safe if used appropriately.

  10. #30
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    I agree I'm very biased.
    But there's only a bit of butane, and thre's always water form the developer...

    I feel that what I pour/blow (?) in the bottle is quite less than it takes to refill a lighter.

    Jorge O

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