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  1. #1
    Jorge Oliveira's Avatar
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    There was a thread sometime ago re Protectan - and propane/butane.

    My fist findings using butane (gas lighter refuel bottle):

    The paper developer bottle half full would bend towards the inner side without it, due to oxygen absortion by the developper. Now no more (and sometimes even to the ouside, like a barrel, due to excess butane).
    The devloper (I use homemade ID-62) looks like new even with just one quarter bottle full after about a week (and before that 3/4, 1/2, etc). It was darker without butane.

    I turn the butane bottle upside down and squeese the valve for 1~2 seconds inside the dev bottle and close the dev tight.

    All the usual safety precaution apply.

    Jorge O

  2. #2

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    Bravo Jorge, glad to see someone else has a test running. I am getting about the same results so far with a few differences.

    I have mixed D-76 and 1/4 filled some small plastic Pepsi bottles and some small glass drink bottles for a control sample. My butane is reacting the same as yours but my air/dev combo has not sucked the bottle sides in. Because of the concern about explosiveness of Butane I also have used a Dust off like product and it seems to be absorbing into the developer as the bottles look like they have been in a crusher. All samples still look clear but I am not going to open most of them till six months has passed. I am opening and re-butaneing (is that a word?) one of the bottles monthly.

    I also have a plastic bottle of d76 1:1 in the fridge to see how long I can keep working strength solution.

    This is so much fun I just sit around and look at the bottles for hours :twisted:

  3. #3
    Jorge Oliveira's Avatar
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    Bob

    I've used paper dev since it has less sulphite and more alkali, so I thought it would show the results more clearly.
    Your 6 months test will be very interesting.

    Eagerly awaiting,

    Jorge O

  4. #4

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    I think you're right about it responding more quickly. I thought about using paper dev also for testing as it is stronger but I don't often store it for long and want real world results for film. I often have left over film dev. that I don't want to toss but if you risk using it later on good shots it's not so easy to just re-expose and develop again like with prints.

  5. #5

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    What are you using for bottles? I'm not sure I get the bit about the developer absorbing O2. If the developer absorbs oxygen shouldn't the developer then grow by a similar amount? It's not like the Oxygen disappeared.

    Those plastic pop bottles will leak air over time. Not enough to be noticable with pop but it's happening.

  6. #6

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    Robert, I don't know either but I can tell you that simple observation of the container shows that whatever gas was filling the container has gone somewhere and I have to assume it has dissolved into the liquid thereby decreasing the gas pressure and causing the atmosphere to crush the container.??????

    Part of the testing is to see if Pepsi type bottles are suitable as many have said. I don't know but will find out if soda bottles work as well as glass. I am not testing those brown photo bottles as I know they don't work as well as glass.

  7. #7
    Jorge Oliveira's Avatar
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    Robert
    Oxygen reacts with the developer's salts (metol, sulphite, etc) and they become other salts.
    Sulpite, if I'm not wrong, becomes sulphate - and useless as an anti oxydizer (but then it's there, among lots of other reasons, to protect the real developer agent's by absorbing oxygen).
    This way, it occupies very much less volume.
    It's quite well known the fact that a developer's bottle (tight closed) may look 'crushed' when partially filled if it's not strong enough. Try it!

    Re brown bottles - they may not be good for long term storage, but I've never had problems with say one month.

    Now, Bob's point re film developer in glass bottles makes a lot of sense.

    Jorge O

  8. #8
    Ole
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    One explanation for the "sucked-in" airfilled and "bulging" butaned bottles could be temperature changes. I do have a very old unopened bottle of Ilfosol-S whith sucked-in sides, so oxygen absorption is definitely taking place...

    When you fill up a bottle wit hbutane, the gass expands. That cools it down. When you close the bottle, the butane is still below ambient temperature. As the gas warms up, it expands - bulging bottles!
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

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    Butane will also pass through the walls of certain types of plastic bottles. Not a good choice of inert gas. It's probably worth it to spend a few dollars and get a nitrogen tank and regulator if this is what you want to do.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by avandesande
    Butane will also pass through the walls of certain types of plastic bottles. Not a good choice of inert gas. It's probably worth it to spend a few dollars and get a nitrogen tank and regulator if this is what you want to do.
    If it was only a few dollars you're right but I could thow away a lot of chemistry for the price of tankand regulator set up.

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