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  1. #11
    Murray Kelly's Avatar
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    It looks like a phenidone problem. They had the same problem with POTA but overcame most of that with brush development, so I've read.
    When I first used H&W with Agfa Copex Rapid I got this
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/11040255@N04/2203188844/

    Further reading of the instruction sheet said that if you had this problem then instead of 60 secs you should give an intitial 90 sec agitation.

    They specifically mentioned skies and broad areas of single tone.

    A possibility, if there's phenidone in the Rollie developer.

    Murray

  2. #12
    Contrastique's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murray Kelly View Post
    They specifically mentioned skies and broad areas of single tone.
    A possibility, if there's phenidone in the Rollie developer.
    Thanx for your visible input although it's hard to see on the image if it's really what I have. I can't find anything about Phenidone being in the Rollei developer so can't rule that out.
    The mentioned broad areas of singletones..in my photos it also happens when there's actually more tone as well, it's just visible in the unsharp parts so I'm not sure.
    I just emailed RoVo and got back a list from what's in the RLC:

    Dangerous components:
    Name: - % - CAS-No. EINECS-No. -Symbols

    Hydroquione - 3 - 123-31-9-204-617-8 - Xn, N;
    R 22-40-41-43, 50

    Sodium Hydroxide - 1 - 1310-73-2-215-185-5 - C;
    R35

    Sodium Carbonate - 8 - 497-19-8-207-838-8 - Xi;
    R36

    Other Informations: Main component = water

    It looks as though it has been solarized. My collegue mentioned the same thing. I developed the 2 films together and used no stop as recommended in another thread. I fixed for 2 minutes, maybe this was too short..?
    Funny thing is that somehwere else on a spec-sheet I read that stop was needed and water in between was not sufficient. Maybe something went wrong there?
    Still merely speculating as I'm still kind of clueless.
    I'll try one more batch soon and use stop, use demi-water for the developer and see if the problem goes away.

    Thanx to all for your input so far

  3. #13

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    Another phenidone example.Here's ATP in H&W Control wrongly agitated only once per minute:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails H&W under agitated-1.jpg  

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Johnson View Post
    Another phenidone example.Here's ATP in H&W Control wrongly agitated only once per minute:
    Thanx. That does seem to look like it...too bad I can't seem to find a conclusive answer to whether this Phenidone is in the RLC or not.
    I read it's advised to continuously agitate the first 30 seconds and than 5 seconds every 30. I'll give that a try next time. Maybe that'll solve it...

  5. #15
    Murray Kelly's Avatar
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    I think they would have said so if phenidone was in the mix. Avoiding a direct question like that would be a poor PR move.

    In that case it really does look like solarisation, I must admit. Pity we don't know why, as it could be a tool for somebody wanting the effect. (which is not unpleasant, unless you 'don't' want it!)

    Sorry I can't help more
    Murray

    http://www.apug.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif

    Quote Originally Posted by Contrastique View Post
    Thanx. That does seem to look like it...too bad I can't seem to find a conclusive answer to whether this Phenidone is in the RLC or not.
    I read it's advised to continuously agitate the first 30 seconds and than 5 seconds every 30. I'll give that a try next time. Maybe that'll solve it...

  6. #16

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    Here is posted a MSDS for ATP-DC developer:
    http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Arch.../msg00035.html
    1-phenyl 3-pyrazolidone is phenidone.
    hydroxy-methyl phenidone is probably 4-hydroxy-4-methyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidone, AKA Dimezone-S
    Last edited by Alan Johnson; 06-06-2008 at 01:45 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #17
    Contrastique's Avatar
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    Thanx! If the RLC contains the same ingredients as the DC than most likely I'm dealing with the Phenidone issue here. That would be nice because than at least I know where it came from and it should not be too hard to reproduce when desired. Next batch will be the conclusive answer I guess.

  8. #18

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    I believe Rollei RLC= Docufine LC.
    In this post of the German MSDS it contains 13047-13-7 which is Dimezone-S (not phenidone as stated in the link).
    Dimezone-S is a more stable form of phenidone and has similar activity as a developer I believe.
    http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Arch.../msg00111.html

  9. #19
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    So how much should I be agregating this film / Dev combo? And what timings did people use as a starting point?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishy View Post
    So how much should I be agregating this film / Dev combo? And what timings did people use as a starting point?
    The list below is from the official datasheet of the ATP on the Rollei site:

    "Important processing references:

    * No pre-soaking of the film!

    * Fundamentally important, the developer is to be set with destilled water only!

    * No stopping bath!

    * Fixing bath, 2x more diluted, e.g. Agefix 1+15!

    * Wetting agent, 3 x diluted, e.g. RWA 1+3.000!

    * Developer temperature affects the grain size. Attempts with 17°C (all bathes!) and alternatively with 25°C resulted in different grain sizes.
    The reference that „all bathes“ refers that the developer + fixing bath must have in principle the identical temperature!

    * It was identified that the film spoul and developing tanks must be very clean. In no case, remaining silver and/or wetting agents may adhere! Therefore: A more thorough cleaning than normal is hardly recommended!"

    I talked to Rovo a bit about the development and he said skipping the stop bath is not necessary.
    The dillution as mentioned on the bottle of developer is 1+4. I thought this was a little too heavy and later on found out that I wasn't the only one with this assumption. Therfore they advised a dillution of 1+5 or even 1+6, depending on personal preferences of course and desired results.

    Agitating, the first 30 seconds continuously and after that 5 every 30 seconds.

    This is the way I'm gonna do my second batch of ATP in RLC. I'll report back when I have finished it (will not be today but hopefully somewhere this week).

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