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  1. #1

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    Newbie Rodinal Question

    I finally got the stuff I need to process BW film.
    I bought Rodinal,Agfa Agefix and Agfa Agepon.

    I have a roll of t-max 100,shot at ISO 100,and
    a roll of APX 100,shot at ISO 100,ready for developing.

    I used a cheap yellow lens filter when shooting.

    According to Massive Dev Chart,the time for APX in Rodinal 1:50 is
    13 minutes at 20 degrees celcius and the time for t-max 100 in
    rodinal 1:50 is 12 minutes at 20 degrees celcius.

    And after a lot of reading,it seems that
    the "trick" is to agitate non-stop the first 30 sec.,
    the agitate the 5 first seconds of every minute,
    or does anyone here have some better ideas??
    Whats the "correct" way to do this,all tips and links
    are welcome,

  2. #2
    David William White's Avatar
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    If your tank can invert without leaking, then usually 2 or 3 gentle inversions per minute is sufficient to agitate. If your tank has a stick that twirls the reel, then just twirl a couple of revolutions each minute. Everyone has their own thing they do, but whatever, stay consistent. You will find your own times for your water pH, bias in your thermometer, your enlarger type, and your preference for density & contrast.

    Properly made contact sheets will tell you if you are consistent in your exposures and in your development from roll to roll.

  3. #3

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    I probably agitate a little more than that, but so what. Consistency in your procedure is the salient point, as David said.

  4. #4
    Whiteymorange's Avatar
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    No aspersions cast on the tried and true, but I really like APX 100 35 in Rodinal 1/150 for 1 hour, agitate first minute, then gentle inversions every 15 min. I haven't used this formula with other film, but it's the only way I do APX 100 these days.

  5. #5
    David William White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteymorange View Post
    No aspersions cast on the tried and true, but I really like APX 100 35 in Rodinal 1/150 for 1 hour, agitate first minute, then gentle inversions every 15 min. I haven't used this formula with other film, but it's the only way I do APX 100 these days.
    Smoother? What's your volume of working solution per roll at this dilution?

  6. #6
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    The important things in agitation are uniformity and randomness.

    Remember, Uniformity and Randomness.

    So, if you just keep doing the same repetitive motion, you are moving the same chemicals past the same film, and different parts of the tank get different amounts of flow. At 12 or 13 minutes, this may be less a problem, but at times getting down toward five minutes, it certainly can be. Anyway, you might as well develop good habits right from the get go.

    Eventually, you wil absorb it into your sense of your body. No avoiding it. A long time ago (back in the olden days, when knights rode around upon their trusty steeds, jousting with each other and rescuing fair damsels from fire breathing dragons), I was sitting in a taxicab between Imogen Cunningham and Ruth Bernhard. There was well over 100 years of experience in that cab, and my part was almost 10. Ruth said "A young man asked me how I agitate my film; I couldn't think of what to tell him." Imogen said "That's interesting. I guess it would depend on whether the phone rings". I could picture her agitating film while watering her plants. I hope not cooking, because I sometimes had dinner with her. The point is that once you get it down, you will forget how you do it. When I resumed teaching after not doing it for awhile, I had to analyze how I did it. I'll share with you what I tell my students. They rarely have problems, but I think most beginners do have problems. I did; the memory is painful.

    I use steel tanks which are perfect for inversion - they were designed for it. The agitation is accomplished by bubbles of air trapped in the tank gurgling through the reels. It will also work with plastic tanks, such as Paterson and Jobo, but I don't like Paterson tanks for 120 film. They are alright for 35mm. When inverting, I don't toss the tank in an arc, but rather exchange hands in the inversion, keeping the tank in one place in front of my chest. Try this with something like a can of tomatoes. You will see that as you exchange from left to right, or right to left, the can will rotate about 1/3 turn, always in the same direction, so in a 5 second time, you will rotate the tank twice or so. Just how many turns isn't important, but it is important that the tank turns. Imagine, if you had only one molecule of developer in the tank, how would you get it to contact all the film? That's a really good way.

    I agitate for the first twenty seconds, then 5 every minute thereafter. Twice a minute is too much, I've found. Then rap the tank on the counter or the sink (not too hard! Especially if it, or the sink, is plastic). This dislodges any air bubbles that might stick to the surface causing hideous dark spots surrounded with lighter rings. These like to happen on the ends of your subject's nose, but never occur in gravel beds.

    Oh yes. There are lots of creative agitation schemes, and they may be great, but I would very strongly recommend that you get the basic down first before getting into the arcane.

    Good luck, have fun.

    Larry

  7. #7

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    Thanks a lot for the advices.
    I Finally got my Rodinal yesterday,
    mixed 1:50,developed a roll Tmax 100,
    very close to 13 minutes.
    Agitation first 30 sec.,then
    gentle inversions every 4 minutes.
    I rap the tank to the sink to get
    bubbles away.

    The negatives look pretty normal to me,
    the only no-good thing i noticed was a
    few drying marks.

    Printing with my Axomat 4a will be done later.

    Anyway,heres some quick(and dusty) scans from my T-max 100 roll:
    TMax 100 Examples

  8. #8
    David William White's Avatar
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    Lots of tonal range -- looks great, and I like the clothespins.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by bowzart View Post
    The important things in agitation are uniformity and randomness.

    Remember, Uniformity and Randomness.

    So, if you just keep doing the same repetitive motion, you are moving the same chemicals past the same film, and different parts of the tank get different amounts of flow. At 12 or 13 minutes, this may be less a problem, but at times getting down toward five minutes, it certainly can be. Anyway, you might as well develop good habits right from the get go.

    Eventually, you wil absorb it into your sense of your body. No avoiding it. A long time ago (back in the olden days, when knights rode around upon their trusty steeds, jousting with each other and rescuing fair damsels from fire breathing dragons), I was sitting in a taxicab between Imogen Cunningham and Ruth Bernhard. There was well over 100 years of experience in that cab, and my part was almost 10. Ruth said "A young man asked me how I agitate my film; I couldn't think of what to tell him." Imogen said "That's interesting. I guess it would depend on whether the phone rings". I could picture her agitating film while watering her plants. I hope not cooking, because I sometimes had dinner with her. The point is that once you get it down, you will forget how you do it. When I resumed teaching after not doing it for awhile, I had to analyze how I did it. I'll share with you what I tell my students. They rarely have problems, but I think most beginners do have problems. I did; the memory is painful.

    I use steel tanks which are perfect for inversion - they were designed for it. The agitation is accomplished by bubbles of air trapped in the tank gurgling through the reels. It will also work with plastic tanks, such as Paterson and Jobo, but I don't like Paterson tanks for 120 film. They are alright for 35mm. When inverting, I don't toss the tank in an arc, but rather exchange hands in the inversion, keeping the tank in one place in front of my chest. Try this with something like a can of tomatoes. You will see that as you exchange from left to right, or right to left, the can will rotate about 1/3 turn, always in the same direction, so in a 5 second time, you will rotate the tank twice or so. Just how many turns isn't important, but it is important that the tank turns. Imagine, if you had only one molecule of developer in the tank, how would you get it to contact all the film? That's a really good way.

    I agitate for the first twenty seconds, then 5 every minute thereafter. Twice a minute is too much, I've found. Then rap the tank on the counter or the sink (not too hard! Especially if it, or the sink, is plastic). This dislodges any air bubbles that might stick to the surface causing hideous dark spots surrounded with lighter rings. These like to happen on the ends of your subject's nose, but never occur in gravel beds.

    Oh yes. There are lots of creative agitation schemes, and they may be great, but I would very strongly recommend that you get the basic down first before getting into the arcane.

    Good luck, have fun.

    Larry
    Many years ago, when I was young, I see-sawed roll film through a tray of developer. Now, I develop roll film in SS tanks in diluted developer with semi-stand agitation.
    Tom Hoskinson
    ______________________________

    Everything is analog - even digital :D

  10. #10
    David William White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hoskinson View Post
    Many years ago, when I was young, I see-sawed roll film through a tray of developer...
    I still do when I'm at the cottage! Simple is best!



 

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