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Go Back   APUG > APUG English Forums > Darkroom > B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry > Ammonium Thiosulfate floating debris

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Old 07-03-2008, 09:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
Yes, but anyhow you can buy them at any hardware store in the US. They are fine filters that are used to remove debris from paint.

They are also used by physicians to detect kidney stones.

PE
I've never seen a paint filter that wasn't a paper cone with a cheese cloth filter near the point. They only catch chunks. Maybe there are other, better ones?

I use an old Melitta coffee by the cup filter holder and, of coure, a filter. Much, much finer. Catches real tiny stuff as any coffee drinker knows.
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Old 07-03-2008, 09:34 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Default Not the deal that you think!

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Originally Posted by MurrayMinchin View Post
Well slap my ass and call me Judy! How long have they been selling it in powder form? This is great news for me because now I don't have to pay for shipping water thousands of miles

Murray
OK, this is off the top of my head from when I looked into these matters six months ago.

A gallon of 60% AT with shipping will cost you about $25. It has about 5 pounds of AT in it, voila, $5/lb of dry chemical.

The PT dry is almost $10/lb, IIRC. There are also alleged issues of "instability," whatever that might mean.
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Paul Verizzo View Post
I've never seen a paint filter that wasn't a paper cone with a cheese cloth filter near the point. They only catch chunks. Maybe there are other, better ones?

I use an old Melitta coffee by the cup filter holder and, of coure, a filter. Much, much finer. Catches real tiny stuff as any coffee drinker knows.
The paint filter is capable of catching millimeter or less sized particles and it does not use cheese cloth. It is used in different grades which is what may be confusing you. Doctors use them to catch kidney stones for analysis. They prescribe them in the right 'band pass' size for the patient.

PE
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:15 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Paul Verizzo View Post
OK, this is off the top of my head from when I looked into these matters six months ago.

A gallon of 60% AT with shipping will cost you about $25. It has about 5 pounds of AT in it, voila, $5/lb of dry chemical.

The PT dry is almost $10/lb, IIRC. There are also alleged issues of "instability," whatever that might mean.
Please give your references for instability. Thanks.

PE
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:56 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by PVia View Post
What's the formula for making the ammonium fixer?

Is this any cheaper than buying the premade TF4...or is it a TF3 recipe?
There are many ammonium thiosulfate-based fixer formulas, TF-3 among them. The last time I checked, none was less expensive than the less expensive commercial fixers, such as TF-4 and Kodak Flexicolor fixer (the C-41 fixer; it's also usable with B&W products). My calculations at the time included shipping estimates; however, my cost data is a couple years old, so it's possible it's now less expensive to mix your own.
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
The paint filter is capable of catching millimeter or less sized particles and it does not use cheese cloth. It is used in different grades which is what may be confusing you. Doctors use them to catch kidney stones for analysis. They prescribe them in the right 'band pass' size for the patient.

PE
You might well be correct, PE. I've never been offered grades of filters, even buying and use auto paints. They are the most critical and expensive, compared to home paints.

And perhaps I should have said "cheese cloth like."

Live and learn!
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:32 PM   #17 (permalink)
 
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Please give your references for instability. Thanks.

PE
Haven't a clue, but I saw that a number of times researching fixers which led to the paper I wrote. I came to sense it was urban legend or something, especially if you took the precaution of keeping it dry.

But here's a search to do more digging: http://clusty.com/search?input-form=...te%22+unstable
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Old 07-04-2008, 10:27 AM   #18 (permalink)
 
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According to the MSDS, the decomposition is over 300C and it produces Hydrogen Sulfide gas. All of the data I have is that if it is poorly kept (warm and moist for example), it can decompose, but routinely stored it should be all right. Don't get me wrong, there can be problems and residual sulfur may be one manifestation but not in this case. The Formulary product appears to be OK as far as I can tell.

As for paint filters, two local hardware stores here stock them in 3 grades, fine, medium and small, and the hospital supply stocks them in at least one fine size made for them. I use them for washing and straining emulsions.

PE
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Old 07-04-2008, 11:02 AM   #19 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
According to the MSDS, the decomposition is over 300C and it produces Hydrogen Sulfide gas. All of the data I have is that if it is poorly kept (warm and moist for example), it can decompose, but routinely stored it should be all right. Don't get me wrong, there can be problems and residual sulfur may be one manifestation but not in this case. The Formulary product appears to be OK as far as I can tell.

As for paint filters, two local hardware stores here stock them in 3 grades, fine, medium and small, and the hospital supply stocks them in at least one fine size made for them. I use them for washing and straining emulsions.

PE
As I said, I suspected that AT's instability became a fact by being repeated.

Maybe they got mixed up with ammonium thioCYANATE. Now, there's the definition of hygroscopic! Individual crystals melt into a blob of liquid in not too many minutes in air, at least here in FL.

I think I'll get some of those graded paint filters....just in case I have a stone!
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Old 07-04-2008, 11:38 AM   #20 (permalink)
 
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I have a drawer full of the filters to use in emulsion making and in case I get a stone.

I have a 1 # jar of ammonium thiocyanate that seems just fine. And, due to the lake, Rochester is not noted for its dry weather.

PE
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