Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,212   Posts: 1,532,017   Online: 1173
      
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11
  1. #1
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I've been everywhere ooooohhh yeaahhhh still I'm standing tall.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,653
    3 PCat HD ?s

    - Should you soak the film in the used dev after fixing as with other staining devs?

    - Acid or alkali fixer? any noticeable differences?

    -Anyone tried PCat with Delta 3200? Say about 18-20 mins at ISO 3200?
    "He took to writing poetry and visiting the elves: and though many shook their heads and touched their foreheads and said 'Poor old Baggins!' and though few believed any of his tales, he remained very happy till the end of his days, and those were extraordinarily long "- JRR Tolkien, ' The Hobbit '.

  2. #2
    Eric Rose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Calgary AB, Canada
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    4,241
    Images
    73
    Resoaking the film in spent dev is not required and not recommended by Sandy. I use Ilford fix with good results, have no idea whether it's acid or alkali. Haven't tried Delta 3200 with it. Let us know. One thing you might want to try is 80% of PMK times if they are available.
    www.ericrose.com
    yourbaddog.com

    "civility is not a sign of weakness" JFK

    "The Dude abides" - the Dude

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    6,242
    I have recently measured negative densities on the blue channel of a color densitometer. The pyrocat stain will add about .30 density over what the visual reading would be at a 1.20 density. This is important to note since it will be a factor when contact printing on Azo.

    Additionally the times that Clay Harmon and Sandy King have been kind enough to share appear to be very accurate in my experience. The difference in my processing compared to theirs is that they use a Jobo and I brush develop my negatives (thanks to Jorge).

    The negatives that I took the readings on were processed in acid stop bath and conventional hypo. Both of which were mixed as normal with no special considerations given for the pyro stain.

    Hope that this is of help.
    Art is a step from what is obvious and well-known toward what is arcane and concealed.

    Visit my website at http://www.donaldmillerphotography.com

  4. #4
    Ole
    Ole is offline
    Ole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Bergen, Norway
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    9,281
    Blog Entries
    1
    Images
    31
    The pyrocat stain is a factor when printing on VC paper as well: It has about the same effect as full yellow filtration - i.e. very low contrast. Expect to be surprised by the necessary change in filtration!
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  5. #5
    Jeremy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Denton, TX
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,767
    Images
    56
    so is printing with pyrocat with its full yellow filtration in addition to full magenta like split-filter printing through one exposure?
    Let's see what I've got in the magic trash can for Mateo!

    blog
    website

  6. #6
    Aggie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    So. Utah
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,925
    Images
    6
    ..

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    6,242
    Quote Originally Posted by Ole
    The pyrocat stain is a factor when printing on VC paper as well: It has about the same effect as full yellow filtration - i.e. very low contrast. Expect to be surprised by the necessary change in filtration!
    I have tested both a Pyrocat HD negative and an ABC pyro negative using a Xrite 310 densitometer. I read the effects of the stain on the different color channels. These are my findings:

    Pyrocat HD Visual density 1.82 Blue Channel 2.17
    Green Channel 1.87

    ABC Pyro Visual density 1.91 Blue Channel 2.41
    Green Channel 1.95

    Actual tests of the effects of stain of these developers show a minimal effect in respect to imparting green (low contrast). As one can see the effects at a fairly high density in both cases was .05 in the case of Pyrocat and .04 in the case of ABC pyro. This is not surprising since Pyrocat's stain is brown in color wheras ABC pyro is more black.

    I have not used PMK since I have long considered the greenish general stain imparted by that developer to be counter productive to the benefits of proportional staining of the high silver densities in the negative. Furthermore PMK would by the nature of it's stain color be more prone to passing green (low contrast) light into it's emissive path. PMK is a good developer and many use it to good effect. I, however, do not favor it for my work.

    The tests do indicate that the blue channel readings show that Pyrocat has a lower tendency to limit the passage of blue light through the emulsion then ABC pyro. (.35 in the case of Pyrocat vs. .50 in the case of ABC Pyro). This increased density represented to the blue spectrum would indicate that ABC Pyro has the greater contrast reduction potential when used with VC materials. This would indicate that the characteristic that makes Pyrocat such a wonderful developer for use in Azo are limiting to a degree with VC filtration. However, the effects of the proportional staining in overall contrast is probably offsetting a certain degree to the limitations on the blue spectrum passage.

    In my work enlarging Pyrocat negatives I have not found that the effects have been that of full yellow filtration. I do not have an actual comparison of the effect since I have not shot and developed the same scene shot on both a Pyrocat developed negative and a none staining developer negative. I have noted however beautifully differentiated upper tonal values (VI and above) when using Pyrocat HD.

    When we get into the region of densities most often seen with enlarging the following are the results with Pyrocat.

    Pyrocat HD Enlarging Visual density 1.10 Blue Channel 1.39
    Green Channel 1.13
    This would be expected and shows the proportional nature of the stain effect on negative density when compared to the examples above.

    I would tend to believe that if any staining developer would have the contrast reduction potential in use with VC materials then it would be PMK.
    Art is a step from what is obvious and well-known toward what is arcane and concealed.

    Visit my website at http://www.donaldmillerphotography.com

  8. #8
    Ole
    Ole is offline
    Ole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Bergen, Norway
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    9,281
    Blog Entries
    1
    Images
    31
    My comment was based not on sensitometry, but a purely empirical observation from printing the same negative on three papers: Bergger Contact, Kentmere Art Classic, and Ilfird MG IV WT.

    It was unprintable on the Bergger, barely printable (with "pseudo-lith technique" for contrast reduction) on the Kentmere, and exeedingly soft (unfiltered) on the MG. And that was the end of my session, and I haven't been home since. Will experiment some more next week (?).
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    4,813
    Images
    5
    As was noted in another post I do not recommend the post-fixer alkaline bath for Pyrocat-HD. The alkaline after-bath serves no useful function in my opinion as it results primarily in general fog, same as b+f stain that does nothing to enhance the printing qualities of a negative, IMHO.

    About fixers, I use the alkaline TF-3 fixer described in Anchell and Troop's The Film Developing Cookbook. However, I would not hesitate to use an acid fixer with Pyrocat-HD if that was all I had available. There might be a very slight decrease in the amount of image stain but not enough to be of any consequence in my estimation.

    As for the impact of the color of the stain on VC papers I wish I could be of more help. However, the truth of the matter is that I am printing exclusively these days with alternative processes and have not made an enlarged silver print in several years. In fact, I recently discarded my old 5X7 enlarger to make more room in my workspace for other things and don't feel even the slightest sense of loss.

    So if you get too confused about stain and VC papers, just get rid of your projection equipment and print with AZO, which is about the best silver paper ever made, if not the best, or switch to one of the alternative processes!!!

    Sandy King

  10. #10
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I've been everywhere ooooohhh yeaahhhh still I'm standing tall.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,653
    Thanks for that. I've printed countless negs developed in staining devs on VC papers with no problems-usually Kentmere and Forte, which don't have the softened highlights of MG4.

    Re fixers-I'll probably use an alkaline one anyway because it washes out more easily and may well help give more stain-initial trials with TF3 promising.

    In the past I've tried Dixactol with Delta 3200 but the results were a bit thin and foggy. Perhaps PCAT for 18 mins at 3200 will be a good start-with a quick look with a green safelight at 12 mins or so.
    "He took to writing poetry and visiting the elves: and though many shook their heads and touched their foreheads and said 'Poor old Baggins!' and though few believed any of his tales, he remained very happy till the end of his days, and those were extraordinarily long "- JRR Tolkien, ' The Hobbit '.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin