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  1. #81
    Mark Antony's Avatar
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    Sure Tom
    I understand. Rodinal does give slightly more defined grain than say Xtol with a given emulsion- no argument. my statement was this:
    Rodinal does not give HUGE grain.

    You see my findings are that at lower dilutions say 1:25 Rodinal gives similar grain to ay ID11 (in fact on a 12x16 from 35mm HP5 I can't tell them apart)
    I think the assertion that Rodinal is a grainy developer is false, it doesn't give huge grain when compared with other common developers, especially with careful exposure and processing.
    I have pictures on medium speed films that show comparatively little grain in Rodinal even in the sky.
    Of course there may be some speed loss and you may have to resort to less agitation but in my experience the statement "Rodinal gives HUGE grain" is false, slightly more defined grain than a fine grain developer possibly but not huge.
    I don't want this to be a Church of Rodinal vs fine grain dev argument, if you find it too grainy OK I find in practice it is little different to ID11/D76 with my modus.
    YMMV as they say
    Regards
    Mark
    Last edited by Mark Antony; 06-09-2009 at 03:39 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: clarity

  2. #82
    gainer's Avatar
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    We who like Rodinal do so because it has something besides obvious grain. Some time ago. I thought I had found a simple way to reduce the grain while keeping the difficult-to-describe but good part. Add some sodium ascorbate. It's better IMO than adding sulfite. A teaspoon per liter of 1+50 Rodinal will do. If you cant find the ascorbate, mix 1 tsp ascorbic acid with 1/2 teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate in some of the water and let it quit fizzing before you add the rest of the water and the Rodinal. This liter will now be as active as Rodinal 1+25. I can only say that the ascorbate is noted as a surface developer, which may explain its unexpected contribution. Maybe you'll like it, maybe not. In any case, don't forget to use sodium ascorbate or make your own with the baking soda, or the pH will be WAY too low.
    Gadget Gainer

  3. #83
    clayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gainer View Post
    We who like Rodinal do so because it has something besides obvious grain. Some time ago. I thought I had found a simple way to reduce the grain while keeping the difficult-to-describe but good part. Add some sodium ascorbate. It's better IMO than adding sulfite. A teaspoon per liter of 1+50 Rodinal will do. If you cant find the ascorbate, mix 1 tsp ascorbic acid with 1/2 teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate in some of the water and let it quit fizzing before you add the rest of the water and the Rodinal. This liter will now be as active as Rodinal 1+25. I can only say that the ascorbate is noted as a surface developer, which may explain its unexpected contribution. Maybe you'll like it, maybe not. In any case, don't forget to use sodium ascorbate or make your own with the baking soda, or the pH will be WAY too low.
    Gainer, not that it heavily matters - but would you say that this is similar to the XTOL+Rodinal mix? Of course the ingredients for XTOL aren't exactly cut and dry, but I'm sure some of them are control elements:

    Part A:
    • Sodium sulfite
    • Sodium metaborate, tetrahydrate
    • Diethylenetriaminepentaacetic acid pentasodium salt
    • 4-hydroxymethyl-4-methyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidinone


    Part B:
    • Sodium sulfite
    • Sodium isoascorbate
    • Sodium metabisulfite

    (taken from the Unofficial XTOL page)
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  4. #84
    gainer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayne View Post
    Gainer, not that it heavily matters - but would you say that this is similar to the XTOL+Rodinal mix? Of course the ingredients for XTOL aren't exactly cut and dry, but I'm sure some of them are control elements:

    Part A:
    • Sodium sulfite
    • Sodium metaborate, tetrahydrate
    • Diethylenetriaminepentaacetic acid pentasodium salt
    • 4-hydroxymethyl-4-methyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidinone


    Part B:
    • Sodium sulfite
    • Sodium isoascorbate
    • Sodium metabisulfite

    (taken from the Unofficial XTOL page)
    It might be similar in results, but has additional ingredients, especially the ingredients of Part A. Ascorbate and isoascorbate are the same to film, but the iso- is not sold as vitamin. Their molecules are mirror images.

    In this use, I'm guessing the ascorbate is analogous to hydroquinone in serving to regenerate oxidized p-aminophnol sulfonate. This regeneation explains the greater activity of the mixture. I haven't tested hydroquinone, but now I think I shall.
    Gadget Gainer

  5. #85
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolleijoe View Post
    Here are 2 shots of the same building, same day, within minutes of each other. Processed together in Rodinal. I'd say the Efke has a more profound effect with the red brick than the Plus-X, and just as fine a grain if not better. I'd say the effect is more than dark gray! Although the Plus-X does appear sharper, it probably is, but I was using a bad scanner as well.

    Both printed on Varycon Fotokemika Fiber paper.
    It looks like dark gray to me.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

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