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  1. #11
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    I don't know what could have happened except extreme underexposure. I have shot some pretty old Delta 3200 and got printable results. I figured it would be a waste anyhow, so I just loaded it into my C33 to burn through it. The rolls were about 5 years out of date, and were shot in horrid lighting: a dark apartment with light from a 14W bulb about eight feet away and some light bleeding in from the kitchen. I pushed the film, adding about 66% if I remember (20 min. instead of 12, I believe). I got good prints on grade 4 Emaks paper. Dark, but good pix of a fuzzy fat cat. If I didn't want it to look dark on the print, I would not have shot it in the dark, so.....I was happy.

    Based on these few rolls, if I were doing this again, to start my thoughts on exposure, I would probably assume that due to fog, the film is *at least* two full speeds slower than the manufacturer's stated ISO of 1000 (see data sheet). So, ISO 250 to start. The highlights of the film can only be pushed so far; three stops or so in my experience with my main developer (and that is only achieved after toning in selenium, and in situations in which there is enough light to expose so that important areas end up at what would be at least a middle grey tonality on the film with normal development, thus pushable to zone VII with development, and to VIII with toning). Because of the 250 base rating, everything ends up placed higher up the film's characteristic curve, which significantly eats up contrast, and puts an even tougher cap on how far the highlights can be pushed. After a certain point, all you would be doing would be adding midtone density while the highlights were creeping along slowly toward or already having reached max. density. As such, I would say that you should expect to be able to push no more than one stop with old Delta 3200 while maintaining natural looking tonal relationships. So, say 500 is the highest you could rate it. In that case, by rating the film at 6400, you have underexposed it by nearly four stops.

    This film isn't magic, as its nickname would indicate. To be able to push it well, it should be fresh, and exposed so that you get at least something important up to what would be middle grey with normal development. You can't push something that isn't there to begin with. You can only significantly push mids and highs.

    We'll see what happens with the 45-year-old Tri-X I just shot...I expect a black strip of film with extremely faint, grainy images with almost no contrast...if that.
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 09-16-2008 at 05:32 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  2. #12
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    "In that case, by rating the film at 6400, you have underexposed it by nearly four stops."

    To correct myself, it is actually nearly five stops if you assume EI 250 as the base EI.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  3. #13
    Mike Wilde's Avatar
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    high speed film speed loss

    it is not just the super high speed films.

    I recently shot with some fuji NPZ800 c-41, and though only a year out of date, and frozen for 3 years, it is now a 400 speed film if you want detail in the shadows.

    The other recent weird speed experiment for me was some plux x 4x5 film from a camera show, expired 7/78, bought this spring. 11 sheets for $2. Mostly I bought it for the old box.

    I shot a reflection density target with a sheet from the old box, guessing to spot meter the 18% grey tab at an EI of 25, since the film would have slowed at least somewhat due to age.

    I then developed the film for 166% of the recommended time, just to make sure I got some image. Extra development influences the highlights more than the shadows, and I was intersted in establishing where the shadows would fall, to get off the shoulder of the film curve.

    Well, it turns out I now have 10 sheet of EI3 pan 4x5 film. So, my thoughts are to keep it for when I need to do a contrast reduction mask for a c-41 neg. Shoot the neg onto convetional b&w paper as a test print to establish exposure and any need dodging, and then expose onto the film for the final mask.
    my real name, imagine that.

  4. #14

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    Dear Noblebeast,

    Two years out of date you should still have got something...

    Base fog : Yes... speed reduction... Yes

    The key is probably A) How was it stored before you got it and fridged it ?
    B) Something else

    Of course : Have you got any more that you could test ?

    Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

  5. #15
    noblebeast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon R Galley View Post
    Dear Noblebeast,

    Two years out of date you should still have got something...

    Base fog : Yes... speed reduction... Yes

    The key is probably A) How was it stored before you got it and fridged it ?
    B) Something else

    Of course : Have you got any more that you could test ?

    Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :
    Thanks for the reply, Simon.

    A) I'm not sure how it was stored, but I got it from Freestyle.
    B) You got that right, or were you recommending a Kinks album?

    This last roll was the end of my stash of 35mm Delta 3200. I have a roll of 120 that's been stored the same way, and may be out of date as well. Perhaps I'll do a little film speed test with it, metering at speeds from 400 up to 6400, developing for 6400, and then seeing what I've got.

    I still don't know why this film works great for others...

    Joe
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    "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive" - Howard Thurman

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