Discussions: 44,939 | Messages: 605,810 | Members: 29,698 | Online: 206 | Chatroom: 0
User Name:  Password:
 

"That is called grain. It is supposed to be there." -Flotsam


 
APUG search    RSS MOBILE
Customize Sidebar
Gum-Silver Process
Author: Dwane
828 view(s)
aj 12 + various things
Author: jnanian
367 view(s)
Kodak D-19
Author: Tom Hoskinson
787 view(s)
Go Back   APUG > APUG English Forums > Darkroom > B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry > Bits on film

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-22-2008, 08:49 AM   #1 (permalink)
sim
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Middle of nowhere, Wiltshire, UK
Posts: 14
Default Bits on film

Hallo, I am having a slight problem with home processed washed film – FP4 in ID11 at 1+1. I would be interested in your views.

On examining the dry negs nder a loupe there are a lot of random “specks” on the film, when it is wet these “specks” can be seen under the loupe wandering around in the flow of the surface water. They are obviously in suspension in the liquid until they dry in place. The water is mains water filtered through an Ametek table-top water filter (novadarkrooms) previously a Paterson water filter, with chemicals mixed from the filtered water. Finally the film is sprayed with Ilfotol in distilled water.

Has anyone seen this? Has anyone got any suggestions or is it just that my mains water is as filthy as a sewer (!) & I have to live with it? Ideally I would like to have negs that are clean & don’t have specks of rubbish stuck on them as they can be seen on some prints – too much to ask? Help very welcome! If it's any help I don't get drying marks at all - just these pesky specks!!

P.S. The ID11 was mixed from unfiltered hot water as the Ametek filter says not to use hot water. According to the instructions ID11 is to be mixed at 40 degrees – silly question but would filtered cold water heated on a stove be ok to use?
sim is offline   Reply With Quote Ignore this user Ignore this thread Ignore this forum
Old 09-22-2008, 08:59 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 781
Default

Dear sim,

My guess is no better than yours when it comes to the source of your specks, but 40°C is not too hot for your filter. Water that has been filtered then warmed is just fine as well.

Neal Wydra
Neal is offline   Reply With Quote Ignore this user Ignore this thread Ignore this forum
Old 09-22-2008, 09:01 AM   #3 (permalink)
sim
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Middle of nowhere, Wiltshire, UK
Posts: 14
Default

I have to admit that the instructions fo rthe Ametek filter said not to use hot water in it - sounded a bit feeble to me but don't want to boil up & ruin my new purchase !

sim.
sim is offline   Reply With Quote Ignore this user Ignore this thread Ignore this forum
Old 09-23-2008, 08:41 AM   #4 (permalink)
sim
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Middle of nowhere, Wiltshire, UK
Posts: 14
Default

Going to try a new mix of ID11 - filtered cold water heated to around 35degrees in a make-shift water bath before mixing the chemicals - going to keep an eye on those specks & report back!
sim is offline   Reply With Quote Ignore this user Ignore this thread Ignore this forum
Old 09-23-2008, 09:40 AM   #5 (permalink)
AgX
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,625
Default

sim,

Your report does not indicate the quality of your wash water. I guess particles taken over with the wash water might stay on the film, in case you only `spray´ it with wetting-agent solution.

Try to immerse the washed film in a wetting-agent bath of sufficient volume instead. And discard the bath after use.

You could also install a filter into your mains, or even better in your lab-extension.
AgX is offline   Reply With Quote Ignore this user Ignore this thread Ignore this forum
Sponsored Ad. (Subscribers to APUG have the option to remove this ad.)

Old 09-23-2008, 09:57 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Woonsocket, RI USA
Posts: 2,130
Default

Any solid particles present in the developer are likely to be washed away in subsequent processing stages. I'd concentrate on the late stages of processing, not the early ones. How are you doing your final wash, are you using a wetting agent, and if you are using a wetting agent, how are you preparing it (with tap water, bottled water, etc.)? I'd start by ensuring that the last bit of water (or water plus wetting agent) that touches the film doesn't come out of your tap -- use bottled water (possibly distilled). If you're already using such water for your dunk in wetting agent, try adding a couple of rinses in that water before the wetting agent bath. OTOH, if you're already using store-bought water as the final step, it's conceivable that it is what's to blame, so switching brands or switching to tap water might help.
srs5694 is offline   Reply With Quote Ignore this user Ignore this thread Ignore this forum
Old 09-25-2008, 08:48 AM   #7 (permalink)
sim
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Middle of nowhere, Wiltshire, UK
Posts: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AgX View Post
You could also install a filter into your mains, or even better in your lab-extension.
Hallo,

I am using an Ametek water filter from the cold water tap from novadarkrooms:

http://www.novadarkroom.com/product/...r_Filters.html

the desktop version using a 10 micron filter.

Have remixed the chemicals using the filtered water & still saw the "specks", though after washing I soaked the film in some filtered water with Ilford ILfotol wetting agent, after some enthusiastic "dunking" there appeared to be less "specks" bu tstill not rid of them entirely.

If the file is rubbed between fingers when wet the "specks" are almost non existent but does risk scratching the surface.

What to do now?
sim is offline   Reply With Quote Ignore this user Ignore this thread Ignore this forum
Old 09-26-2008, 11:47 AM   #8 (permalink)
 
Martin Aislabie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Stratford-upon-Avon, England
Posts: 283
Default

Sim, I filter all my chemicals going into storage bottles and all the chemicals going into the meassuring cylinders - just to make sure

If I intend to re-use chemicals I filter them back into the storage bottles.

When I filtered the chemicals going back into the storage bottles I was staggered how much "stuff" was being filtered out of the returning chemicals

The main conponent of this stuff was black cotton flecks - from the inside of my film changing bag

Changing to a Harrison Changing Tent (http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/product...Changing-Tents) cured the problems for me

However, I never saw any on my fully washed film - but I do tend to over-wash

Not sure if my experience is relevant but thought I would share it with you just in case

Good luck

Martin
Martin Aislabie is online now   Reply With Quote Ignore this user Ignore this thread Ignore this forum
Old 10-10-2008, 10:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
michaelbsc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 99
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Aislabie View Post
Sim, I filter all my chemicals going into storage bottles and all the chemicals going into the meassuring cylinders - just to make sure

If I intend to re-use chemicals I filter them back into the storage bottles.
What kind of filter did you use. I've thought about this myself, and my first plan is to use a plain old coffee basket paper filter in the funnel.

Is that a good or a bad idea?

MB
__________________
Michael Batchelor
Industrial Informatics, Inc.
www.industrialinformatics.com
michaelbsc is online now   Reply With Quote Ignore this user Ignore this thread Ignore this forum
Old 10-11-2008, 05:27 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
gainer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,976
Default

The trouble with wetting agents is that when the film dries, the wetting agent may remain in a nice, unifomly distributed layer. Or. it may coagulate into not so nice lumps. Hard water is guaranteed to leave particles of limestone, wetting agent or no. I know I am a photographic heathen, but I use a soft paper towel to get as much water off the film as possible. I draw the film slowly over the towel, one side then the other. No scratches or other artifacts attributed to this practice in all my years of using it.
__________________
Gadget Gainer
gainer is offline   Reply With Quote Ignore this user Ignore this thread Ignore this forum
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

 


APUG.ORG Block Ads. (APUG Subscribers have the option of closing this block)
 


  Contact Us - Advertise on APUG - Archive - Top - Site Terms - Forum Rules  
    

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:33 AM.
  
All Content Copyright © 2002-2008 Photocentric Ltd.   Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO APUG.ORG is a division of Photocentric Ltd.
This site is best viewed with a resolution of 1280x1024 (or higher), we recommend using