Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,871   Posts: 1,583,363   Online: 1133
      
Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 80
  1. #21
    Ian Grant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    West Midlands, UK, and Turkey
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    16,432
    Images
    148
    What 2f/2F and ic-racer are saying in slightly different ways is that your initial tests were flawed.

    If you'd tested to find your individual N film speed and optimum development time then your prints would give you the full I - VIII range with ease. It does sound like your under-exposing so don't have the first parameter - your working EI.

    Ian

  2. #22

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    50
    John:

    Yes, I created zones 1 through X using an evenly illuminated, textured surface and established my SNP time based on the slight separation between zones 1 and 11 achieved in the "step wedge" process at f8.

    Bennett

  3. #23

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    50
    Thanks Ic-racer:

    Zones 1 through V are fine and yes I understand the potential for unacceptable darkening of 1 and 11 by simply increasing overall development time. I'm already thinking about an alternative developer and your suggestion of increasing exposure time is something I will try.

    Thanks.

    Bennett

  4. #24

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    50
    Ian:

    I thought I had properly established my working EI by obtaining a good match between my zone V rendition and the 18' gray test card and relating the exposure value underlying this to the unadjusted film speed to determine my working EI.

    Bennett

    Bennett

  5. #25

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    50
    Thanks Kirk:

    That's what started this whole line of questioning - that a dilution beyond the manufacturer's recommended working solution would "move" the upper zones without disturbing zones 1 thorugh V. Do you agree?

    Bennett

  6. #26

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    50
    Ian:

    My times and temperatures are fine but do you really think that the time taken to fill and empty can cause such discernible darkening?

    Bennett

  7. #27

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    8,021
    Images
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett Brown View Post
    Ian:

    I thought I had properly established my working EI by obtaining a good match between my zone V rendition and the 18' gray test card and relating the exposure value underlying this to the unadjusted film speed to determine my working EI.

    Bennett

    Bennett
    That is fine if you will be placing things at zone V most of the time, like most people do with conventional exposure methods. This defeats the purpose of using the zone system. The problems are that this does not let you control your shadows very well, and that zone V is more variable with development than zone I, so is harder to keep consistent. You should find your EI by seeing what rating lets you consistently and predictably place a zone I. You need a handle on the foot of the film so you can swing the rest of it up and down around the foot, which is more or less nailed down where it lies no matter what you do with development.

    In all the time you have put into this post, you could have read the applicable pages of The Negative and have known just as much as you need to know. Repeated Internet posting is a sure way to be led astray, and no way to learn every detail of this stuff.

    The underlying problem here is that you have no idea why you want to use the zone system, and therefore the how of it is being made not only difficult, but entirely useless. You cannot understand the how if you do not have any idea why you even want to understand it in the first place. You need to go out and experience some practical problems. This means shooting, printing, analyzing, and coming to the realization that your printing is just too difficult and you aren't getting the results you want. You will not find your magic bullet on the Internet.
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 11-28-2008 at 04:47 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  8. #28

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    50
    Many thanks Bjorn for your thoughtful suggestions:

    I appreciate the range of counsel and will put some of your ideas to the test.

    Bennett

  9. #29

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    50
    2F/2F:

    Time is something I have lots of, I do read but also learn from other peoples' experiences including your comments which must reflect yours. Many thanks for your interest in helping.

    Bennett Brown

  10. #30
    Ian Grant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    West Midlands, UK, and Turkey
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    16,432
    Images
    148
    Again 2F/2F makes a good point about reading the Negative. I'd suggest reading Steve Simmonds excellent article on determining film speed & development tome. it's free on the View Camera website.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett Brown View Post
    Ian:

    My times and temperatures are fine but do you really think that the time taken to fill and empty can cause such discernible darkening?

    Bennett
    The 1+9 dilution of Ilfosol 3 and recommended 4 minute development time for FP4 @ 20°C leaves no room for errors, certainly making any N-1 or N-2 development very difficult to control accurately. Perhaps Ilfosol 3 is the wrong type of developer to use with the Zone System.

    If you take 30 seconds instead of 15 seconds to fill / empty a tank that's highly significant when the overall time is around 4 minutes. It can be done but it's not sensible when you don't need to.

    Ian

Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin