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  1. #11
    Ole
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    I'll probably be testing a lot of weird toners on a lot of weird papers anyway - results will be posted in "Tales from the Experimental Darkroom".

    Now if I could find a way to make a cobalt toner - and a good source for iridium or rhodium...
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  2. #12

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    I am not giving up Annie, but I think this is going to be something that will require some testing and fiddling which I rather not do at the moment.

    I am sure later I will get back to it, as it sounds to be an interesting experiment.

    Ole, I think on E bay US there is a guy selling rhodium. If not, contact chrristian Nzè he is using rhodium and Iridium to experiment in making coatings a la pt/pd. I will tery to get you his e mail address.

    BTW Annie, if you want to try an experiment and are unsure, post it here! I will be glad to help you and I am sure others will also.

  3. #13

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    Soooo... I have decided it will probably not be me that changes the course of photographic history, however, I do print in silver as well as hand coating Pt and I would like to try the standard modern Platinum toning process (this seem more prudent than running off to France to try and dig up de Caranza's 1856 formula). Before I order up a big bottle of Potassium Chloroplatinite I have a few questions....

    The standard modern formula that seems to be popular (I believe this is from Peter Marshall):

    350ml H20
    1g Sodium Chloride
    3g Citric Acid
    0.5ml Platinum Stock

    Platinum Stock
    1g Potassium Chloroplatinite
    5ml H20

    My questions:

    1. Many of my images are of the ocean and I am intrigued by the idea of using sea water as the medium for the citric acid & platinum stock any obvious problems with this?

    2. What is the difference between the platinum stock of the toning formula and the sodium chloroplatinate solution that we use for coating, is a substitution possible, if so would in be in the same porportions? (the solution as listed on the B&S site is 'Potassium ChloroplatinITE'but the label for my bottle reads 'Potassium ChloroplatinATE'... Did I end up with something different or is this a typo?)

    3. Just how difficult and dangerous would it be to mix the Platinum Stock solution... Is this done with ingredients at room temperature?

    My primary concerns are.... Explosions, invisible deadly gases, solutions that eat the flesh to the bone in a matter of seconds. Any insights or superior formulas are greatly appreciated!

  4. #14
    Ole
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    I'll adress the questions I know something about:

    Quote Originally Posted by Annie
    1. Many of my images are of the ocean and I am intrigued by the idea of using sea water as the medium for the citric acid & platinum stock any obvious problems with this?
    Not a good idea, I think. Sea water doesn't only contain sodium chloride, it also contains sulfate, carbonate, and lots of other stuff in small amounts. It is quite possible (probable) that some of these will form insoluble compounds with the platinum. You're welcome to try, but I wouldn't risk platinum in seawater myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Annie
    3. Just how difficult and dangerous would it be to mix the Platinum Stock solution... Is this done with ingredients at room temperature?

    My primary concerns are.... Explosions, invisible deadly gases, solutions that eat the flesh to the bone in a matter of seconds. Any insights or superior formulas are greatly appreciated!
    ''

    It won't explode. It won't give off dangerous gases. It won't eat flesh. But it seems very, very concentrated to me - are you sure it's 5 ml water? It will probably dissolve at room temperature if it dissolves at all.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  5. #15

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    I just checked the numbers and that is what it reads... mind you this is from the web and not the printed page. To complete toning it says to wash and treat in bath of sodium chloride and sodium carbonate (salt & soda). Perhaps that is the step when I can use the sea water. Thanks.

  6. #16

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    I agree with Ole Annie, dont risk using salt water. Besides, when experiemnting change one variable at the time...not many. If the tonning does not work you wold not know if it was because of the salt water or not.

    Mixing pt ot Pd is very simple, it is not dangerous other than the posibility of breathing the stuff. If you do it in a well ventilated place you should not have problems, after all you have to do is mix water, pt ot pd and salt...:P

    The one thing that has helped me get the pt ot pd in solution is heating the water to about 100 ºF.

  7. #17

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    Thanks Jorge... you guys are right it would be a shame if the whole thing was ruined because of a little 'fish pee'.... I will try it at some point though just to satisfy my curiosity... (the sea water that is, not the fish pee)

  8. #18

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    [quote="Annie"]


    3. Just how difficult and dangerous would it be to mix the Platinum Stock solution... Is this done with ingredients at room temperature?

    Mixing the platinum stock is pretty easy and is not hazaradous, but for very small amounts you will save virtually nothing by mixing it over buying the solution already mixed. What you want for the platinum stock is sold by B%S as Platinum Solution #3 (or for palladium toning there is Palladium Solution #3). Both are 20% solutions, i.e. 1g of metal salt in 5ml of water.

    A standard toner for toning kallitypes and vandykes consists of 10g oif citric acid and 5ml of either the Platinum Solution #3 or Palladium Solutin #3 in 1000ml of water. This may also work for regular silver gelatin papers, or you can use the Marshall formula which is in fact very similar. It is best to use the solution one-shot, using the minimum amount needed to tone a print. For a kallitype this amounts to about 200ml for a 12X20 print. You really need a flat bottom tray to tone with this small amount of solution.

  9. #19

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    Thanks... that means I have everything I need already.... I am shooting at the beach today so I will do a comparison of the 'sea toning' with the standard Pt toning this evening just for fun.

  10. #20

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    Just in case anyone is curious I made some 'tests' with the pt & pd toning and the results are such that at some point I will continue trying this process. I am no chemist and it is entirely possible that I am no photographer either, however....

    My greatest success was with a combination of 8 drops pd and 2 drops pt in 175ml seawater with 15ml acetic solution. I used this amount of toner on a 8x10 for 10 minutes. I seawater developed as usual then soaked for 60 seconds in pure seawater and then to the toning bath and then fixed as usual in seawater rapid fix. At first I thought the image had actually popped at least a ½ grade in contrast from the untoned image but I think this is because of the deeper blacks. On looking at the image further something is happening in the midtones, the only way I can describe it is that there seem to be more of them, I know this does not make sense, I will do some step tablets for a less subjective answer.The colour of the image also shifted next to a selenium toned print it has a subtle hint of olive green but still cool and neutral... (But not that sick green of Ilford Warmtone).

    So there you have it now there is only one thing left to decide... (nomenclature has been such an issue lately) what do I call my prints? Hmmmmmmm.... Pacific Silver Palladiums.......

    Cheers Annie.

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