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  1. #1

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    AFter my discussion with Sandy, I decided to try and tone a silver print with palladium, hoping the print would show a noticieable difference from an untoned print. Sad to say it is not so, the print got a little bit lighter but there was no color change or any noticieable difference that would warrant doing this over selenium.

    Ah well, just thought I will let those of you who were curious know.

  2. #2

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    Thanks Jorge...interesting to know.

  3. #3

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    Jorge,
    That is unfortunate... what was the formula for you toner... are you going to try a platinum toning? You certainly piqued my interest when you mentioned the possibility of the replacement of a provisional silver image with Pt... So this afternoon I perused sections of The Platinotype by Abney (I am sure this is old hat to everyone but me) ... there are toning processes mentioned in that book and others that certainly concur with your theory of silver replacement..... Perhaps you will have the inclination in the future to try again with different formulas. Thanks for the update.

  4. #4

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    Annie you are way ahead of me, I just used a plain solution of palladium tetrachloride at about 0.2%. and toned for 5 minutes.

    Perhaps the solution was too weak and/or I should have used an "activator" like selenium does, something like ammonium sulfate, but frankly the palladium is too expensive to waste experimenting on this, at least in my case.

  5. #5

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    Jorge,

    You probably need an activator. What I used in toning kallitypes with palladium was the following.

    5ml of palladium 20% solution
    10g citric acid
    1000ml of water

    BTW, I made the tests today in toning kallitypes with pure platinum, then bleaching. I reported the results on the largeformat forum. Although I used the toner very warm (at about 160 degrees F) as you had suggested the results were not quite as good as with palladium toning at room temperature.

    Obviously there is a lot of room here for experimentation and I certianly don't think the two tests I have done to date come close to telling us the whole story about noble metal replacement.

  6. #6

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    Jorge,

    As Sandy says, I think you need an activator. I think it should be possible to get it to work using toning formulas similar to those for POP toning, if you have formulas for that.

    I'm not going to be able to try this for a few weeks, as I need to stick to pt/pd to get out a handful of images. If you don't get back to it, I'll try it sometime.

    ---Michael

  7. #7

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    Yeah I am pretty sure it needs an activator, but I really dont feel like fooling around with this. I now remember why I started printing in pt, there is just something about silver prints that does not satisfy me any more. Trying to make a hybrid really is not something I feel deserves the effort and expense.

    Michael, go for it, I am going to stay with pd and pt/pd and try to keep perfecting my technique. If you do get something unusual let us know.

  8. #8
    Ole
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    Palladium is not a good candidate for showing a significant tonal change from silver. Rhodium or Iridium seem to me to be better candidates, although I have no idea if these will be archival.
    Another way could be to go via FSA toning, to get much smaller silver graing before toning. I think this could significantly change the results.

    For pure tonal change iron and copper are well known; add titanium, vanadium and cobalt and you should have enough to play with.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  9. #9

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    Don't give up! There are lots of wonderful old formulas out there that were abandoned or not adequately researched. I would certainly do the experiments however, I do not have the knowledge and experience with chemistry. I wanted to try Stieglitz's platinum toning formula but I thought 'nitric' sounded much too close to 'nitro'.... Well if anyone achieves some success with Pt toning please let us know. Hmmmmmm........ Plazo.........

  10. #10

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    Frankly Jorge, I would rather spend the time messing with more gum bichromate printing right now...

    I have a friend who makes some Koshyk-style prints, and I'll try to get him to do it the next time he is messing with silver paper. I don't even have a box of FB silver paper in the darkroom. I have some RC for proofs, but that's about it.

    Annie, PlAzo... that's a good one! I do have some of that lying around. maybe I'll try it, except I would probably be doing a PdAzo print. Maybe it should be called PtAzo.

    ---Michael

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