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  1. #11
    Dave Swinnard's Avatar
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    An update on the agitation issues with Jobo & Pyrocat HD:

    HP5+ in Pyrocat HD 1+1+100 in the Jobo double reel tank with 306 mls of solution showed slight signs (to the same degree) of "sprocket hole" agitation artifacts at both the slowest (28 rpm) and "normal" 75 rpm setting. Upon reviewing all the rolls I tested in Pyrocat HD all showed the agitation marks. Tri-X (new) was by far the worst, the others all to a similar, lesser degree (Acros, Neopan 400, Delta 400, HP5+ and APX 400)

    I too have had NO problems with agitation artifacts on my 35mm film with other developers at the normal 75 rpm speed. I've used Xtol (from 1+1 to 1+3, my normal), Rollo Pyro, Microphen and Perceptol. No presoak except with the Rollo Pyro (and of course the Pyrocat HD I've just tested).

    I don't get it. When time allows I will test said films in Pyrocat HD with intermittent agitation in my St.St. tank and reel set.

    Dave (..??)

  2. #12
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Swinnard
    An update on the agitation issues with Jobo & Pyrocat HD:

    HP5+ in Pyrocat HD 1+1+100 in the Jobo double reel tank with 306 mls of solution showed slight signs (to the same degree) of "sprocket hole" agitation artifacts at both the slowest (28 rpm) and "normal" 75 rpm setting.
    Are the only "undesirable artifacts" at the sprocket holes/ film margins, or are the image areas affected?

    95% of my work is done in 120 - no sprocket holes, so I haven't noticed anything. The 35mm I've done - I just checked - doesn't show this either - so ??

    BTW - Is the "Double Reel Tank" one of the 1500 series or the larger 2500 series?
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  3. #13

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    [quote="Dave Swinnard"]An update on the agitation issues with Jobo & Pyrocat HD:

    HP5+ in Pyrocat HD 1+1+100 in the Jobo double reel tank with 306 mls of solution showed slight signs (to the same degree) of "sprocket hole" agitation artifacts at both the slowest (28 rpm) and "normal" 75 rpm setting.


    I looked through a bunch of literature and everything I have indicates that the kinds of development artifacts you describe are the result of over-agitation. So for whatever reason it appears that using the Jobo at 28rpm is still too fast for the Pyrocat-HD working solution being used, even though this speed may work fine with other developers.

    Are the artifacts a result of stain? I suspect this may be the case since you mention that the artifacts are more exaggerated with TRI-X than with other films, and for some reasons both TRI-X and TMAX-400 develop a lot more general fog with fast rotation than other films.

    My advice at this point would be.

    1. Slow down the rotation to 10-15 rpm.
    2. If you can't slow down the rpm add a pinch or two of sodium sulfite to the working solution directly before use. This may correct the problem if the artifacts are due to stain streaks.
    3. If neither of the above corrects the problem you need to use another developer, or change to another method of development.

    Did you mention that you had developed 35mm film in Rollo Pyro and not seen the artifact problem? If so this is an anomaly that really surprises me because in every comparison I have made of Rollo Pyro with Pyrocat-HD the latter has been more cleanly working and much less likely to cause any kind of uneven development.

  4. #14
    Dave Swinnard's Avatar
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    Sandy: I will try the sulfite as my slowest achievable rotation is 28 rpm (knob turned all the way down) - what constitutes a "pinch or two" in a ~310 ml working volume? I have not seen this problem with any developers in recent years (not since the old GAF tanks with the twirly thermometer that were used where I used to teach) and certainly not in my Jobo tank until this episode.

    I will try once more (sans sulphite) with a larger volume in the tank (BTW Ed, it's a Jobo 2523 with two reels), then the sulphite, then on to int. agitation in my old Nikor steel tank.

    Thanks for all you input folks.

    Dave

  5. #15
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Swinnard
    (BTW Ed, it's a Jobo 2523 with two reels),...
    Dave
    One rather obvious way to slow the flow of chemicals across the film is to go to a smaller diameter tank - in this case it would be the 1500 series.

    Did these "excessive flow marks" degrade the image frame, or were they confined to the margins / sprocket holes area?
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  6. #16

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    i am going to be getting some of the PyrocatHD in the mail on Monday or Tuesday. I had planned to compare it to PMK with LF film in trays first, but I will make some tests with my JOBO and 35mm. and post the results.

    One suggestion would be to increase the total volume you use. I have found that doubling the volume of solution listed as minimum amount in the 1500 series tanks eliminated problems i once had with some uneven development. the same might be applicable to the tanks you use.

  7. #17

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    I finally got my darkroom up and running after about a 3wk disruption. Got a chance to begin experimenting with Pyrocat HD. my first test was to compare 35mm Delta 100 in XTOL 1-2 to Pyrocat in a JOBO and with pyrocat in a semi-stand development.

    I don't have a densitometer so all my evaluations are based on using the same test subjects and strict contols on time and temp. All my temps are 70F, that is the ambient temp of my darkroom.

    In the JOBO I used the standard 1-1-100 for pyrocat, 200ml total for 14 min. Stand development followed the details given by Michael Emanuel in the Unblinkingeye article on Pyrocat. 2-2-500, 68F, 30 second constant agitiation, then 2 inversions every 10 minutes for 45 min. I reduced the time to 42min to compensate for temp difference.

    The JOBO pryocat showed the best results with film exposed at ei50. I also rate Delta at 50 for XTOL. Excellent highlight seperation, and a noticable improvement in contrast over the XTOL. Midtones and shadows were the same.

    the real difference was in the semi-stand development. Here I was able to get a full ei of 100, and found ei 200 to be very acceptable. Highlights were outstanding, with very nice subtle variations that I have only got with Pyro in larger formats. Shadow seperation very good, and the tonality and smoothness is very similar to what I get with Rodinal and FP4 but without the grain. Extremely sharp at the same time. 11x14 comes out very well.

    I am no expert at testing, and will next move on to some other 35mm films and then the real test against Pyro in sheet film. But I would highly recommend it.

    As for the original question in this thread, I did not find any development artifacts from processing in the JOBO. I use a CPE2 with the reciprocating agitation at the slowest speed.

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