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  1. #1
    DeBone 75's Avatar
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    B&W Negs on Color paper

    I read alot of "Can you print color negs on B&W paper?" My question is, has anybody tryed B&W negs on color paper and can you develope color paper in B&W chemicals. Reason for thought is color paper right now is very cheap. Espectially the larger sizes and long roles. Just a thought
    Leslie D. Wall
    AKA DeBone75

  2. #2
    Domin's Avatar
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    You can develop color paper in b&w chems but what you get is very different story. I've done that as a step in reversal processing and the silver image on both Kodak Supra III and Supra Endura was faint even when heavily overexposed. I'm not an expert but I guess there is not enough silver to form a decent image.

    As for printing b&w neg on color paper I'm planning to try it. It might be fun but I don't think it's a way of saving money.
    The caveats are contrast control - I know of no easy way to do it and you need get the filtration right and stable developer temperature if you want to have repeatable color tone.

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    The short answer is yes. My local mini-lab does it all the time. Most mini-labs are set up for colour neg but if you take in an already developed B&W film they can produce quite good prints in colour print chems. They never look as neutral as those done in B&W print chems and the "colour" varies. The ones I have seen have a slight green look to them but most customers, especially those who have never seen proper B&W prints on B&W paper, don't seem to have a problem.

    To be fair if I had never done my own B&W prints and was happy with holiday type snaps, I would probably be happy as well.

    pentaxuser

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    DeBone 75's Avatar
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    "The ones I have seen have a slight green look to them "
    What effect would selenium have on the paper, I wonder?
    Leslie D. Wall
    AKA DeBone75

  5. #5
    ann
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    can't tone that type of paper.

    i have seen some very good black and white images made on color paper. Someone who really knows what they are doing can print a netural black and white print. However, most of the vendors don't take the time to color correct and since most folks don't complain about the color shifts they just keep on printing "junk".
    http://www.aclancyphotography.com

  6. #6

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    The idea of developing color paper in black and white chemicals is an intriguing one. I haven't tried it, but it would answer the need for a panchromatic paper to print color negatives in black and white. From the above posts, it sounds like you may have to tweak the developer a bit to get the desired outcome. Adjusting the amounts of bromide and hydroquinone might help with the greenish problem. I have also heard rumors that color paper does not have enough silver (or at least enough in the right form) to produce a good black and white image. A somewhat more vigorous developer may help. It looks like some experiments are needed to see if good quality is possible by this route.

    As for printing black and white negatives on color paper, regardless of processing, you have to remember that color paper has high contrast - roughly grade 4.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by nworth View Post
    The idea of developing color paper in black and white chemicals is an intriguing one. I haven't tried it, but it would answer the need for a panchromatic paper to print color negatives in black and white. From the above posts, it sounds like you may have to tweak the developer a bit to get the desired outcome. Adjusting the amounts of bromide and hydroquinone might help with the greenish problem. I have also heard rumors that color paper does not have enough silver (or at least enough in the right form) to produce a good black and white image. A somewhat more vigorous developer may help. It looks like some experiments are needed to see if good quality is possible by this route.

    As for printing black and white negatives on color paper, regardless of processing, you have to remember that color paper has high contrast - roughly grade 4.

    The greenish tint is from when you make a print of a B&W negative on colour paper, because it does not have the orange mask the colour balance is off. Hence you will get a print with the opposite colour cast.

    If you are home printing then get some B&W paper and do it properly.

    If you want to save money, do what I did as a poor student in the 1970's.

    Instead of buying a 25 sheet package of 8x10, a 25 sheet package of 5x7 and a 25 sheet package of 4x5 in several different grades and finishes. I would buy a 100 sheet package of 8x10 variable contrast, Under safe light I would cut an 8x10 in half, yielding 2 5x8 sheets, then I would trim off the excess one inch, the extra strip stayed in the paper safe. When you wanted an exposure, just take the extra strip put it across the image and do a test exposure and process, saved money on having to print and process a full print for the test exposures.

    To get 4x5 sheets I would cut a 5x8 sheet in half, to get 2 4x5 sheets. I often ended up cutting 5 8 x 10 sheets in half, leaving me 10 5x8 sheets, and cut half of those to give me 10 4x5 sheets. It had the advantage that I almost never ran out of 8x10 paper, when I got down to 4 or 5 sheets left, I would buy another 100 sheet package. When I start printing again, I'll probably do the same thing, once I get going.

    Another place to save money is to always use the same paper, developer and procedure, this way you learn fairly quickly how to tweak it for your own use, you do enough and you can get to the point of looking at a negative and guessing pretty close on an exposure.
    Paul Schmidt
    See my Blog at http://clickandspin.blogspot.com

    The greatest advance in photography in the last 100 years is not digital, it's odourless stop bath....

  8. #8
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    If you look in photography/Darkroom handbooks particularly from John Hedgecoe & Michael Langford you'll see plenty of examples of Colour prints made from B&W negs, but developed in colour chemistry. It's a very useful method of making mono-colour images, like a toned B&W image but more flexible colours.

    Ian

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by wogster View Post
    The greenish tint is from when you make a print of a B&W negative on colour paper, because it does not have the orange mask the colour balance is off. Hence you will get a print with the opposite colour cast.

    If you are home printing then get some B&W paper and do it properly. ...
    The question here was about printing color paper with black and white chemicals. The usual black and white paper developers would not activate the color couplers in the paper, so the cause of the greenish cast would have nothing to do with the color of the negatives or (probably) the color couplers in the paper. The utility of the idea is to be able to make good black and white prints from color negatives. Regular black and white paper, in general, can not do that. You need something with panchromatic sensitivity and high contrast. Papers like that used to be available (e.g. Panalure), but they are no longer around.

  10. #10

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    Hi Leslie,

    If it's just to save money, I wouldn't bother. I've sen it done through an Ilford machine and it looked awful. Unless there's a particular 'look' you're after, use the proper materials for their intended purposes and you can't go wrong and these will provide better value for money in the long term. What you may think is 'cheap' will be a false economy if you're disappointed with the results (as I'm sure you would be!) unless you have colour chemistry and kit to use the colour material as intended by the manufacturer.

    All IMO, of course, and I could be wrong...
    testing...

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