New to b&W development question: vertical lines
Hello all first post and it is a question. My wife is the photographer and I am the developer. We recently purchased a rollei gx and brought film back into a digital only house. Many years ago I used to develop my film negatives but have sadly discovered I lost most of what I knew. Over the weekend we shot ilford, rollei and kodak b&w 120 film.
I am using Ilford ID-11 to develop? Is there a better developer, mostly using it because it comes in a powder form and easy to ship to my location.
I am using water as a fixer...I know that is a debate point but seems to work.
I am using kodak photoflo to wash the film. This is where I think my problem is occurring. I am getting vertical lines, almost banding, on all the photos. here is a link to one of the photos (sorry if this is wrong linking to another site):
I tried looking at the negatives through a loop and didnt see any vertical lines and I did discover I am washing the negatives incorrectly, not enough water or long enough...take your pick as it is both in my case.
My wife is using an older Microtek 1800f scanner to import the images with silverfast using 1200 dpi.
I think my lack of washing could be a cause or it could be the scanner or maybe it is part of my re-learning how to develop film...Has anyone seen this before, solutions, could it be the camera scratching the film or me scratching when I load it on the reels? all of the above?
Thanks for any and all help/tips/suggestions.
You need to use a fix as a fixer, no debate, end of story. You can use water as a stop, but shake it as much as you want, it won't fix the film. Use water for washing. Got to the Ilford/Harman website and you will find a good wash regimen. Photoflo as a dilute final rinse to prevent water spots. There is a Youtube video series overview of the entire process for 120 if you follow the link under my signature.
The marks look like squeegee marks on unhardened emulsion, perhaps related to the neg being unfixed, or maybe too strong a Photoflow dilution, IDK. Don't use a sqeegee unless you need to. If you live in a dry climate photoflo treatment is all you need.
It could also be a camera issue, you can check that by running a junk roll through it and examining the unprocessed emulsion at an angle to the light and look for those scratches, if that is what they are.
With the neg you have, examine that at an angle on both sides, as the artifacts may not show up looking through it, but will show when looking at surface reflections.
If you believe it is a scanning issue, you can post for advice on HybridPhoto.com as we don't discuss scanning here.
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Last edited by JBrunner; 01-26-2009 at 11:45 AM. Click to view previous post history.
That's just, like, my opinion, man...
Squeegee? Do you use one to remove excess water before you hang the film to dry?
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Nice pic, if you did not see any with a loop then the scanner would be at fault. Turn the neg 90% and scan.
As to the processing water stop is good by me and debatable by some, but you need FIX for fixing
D-76 is a standard developer, although not one I use.
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Agreeing with Trexx on this one. The lines look like a scanner issue to me. Try scanning them as color, then convert to b/w as necessary. Or try a different scanner.
Last edited by DannL; 01-26-2009 at 11:53 AM. Click to view previous post history.
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Thanks for the comments everyone. I am not using a squeegee though I was thinking abut it but wanted to try air dry first.
On the info at photo.net, that is where I discovered I was doing the wash cycles incorrectly. I will take a look at getting a fixer and/or trying either a vinegar/citric acid solution out as well.
On the scanner techniques cool suggestion, should have thought of that but am feeling under the weather. I will let the wife know and have her move them around to see if the lines are on the scanner or on the photo.
Interesting thread. I have never seen anyone say that wash as a fixer seems to work but based on the OP's comment I presume that without fixer the negs look OK for a while. Just out of academic curiosity can anyone say how long? Could be important in terms of time the OP has left to save the negs.
OP While you haven't said so in as many words, I hope you have the intention to fix the "unfixed films ASAP and thus save them. Otherwise a lot of time and effort in producing precious negs will go down the drain.
Given that my fixer looks very much like water, it has made me think that confusing the water, held in a container for washing a la the Ilford system, with fixer could so easily result in fixing with water and throwing the fixer away and worst of all looking at the negs and thinking they had been fixed and not realising the mistake until its too late.
Mmmm There may be more of a case for labelling than I thought, even in a simple four liquid process of dev, wash, fix and wash.
Water is not a suitable fixer -- it's not even a debatable point. Because you didn't use a proper fixer, your film still contains all of its light-sensitive material and probably looks very cloudy. The vinegar or citric acid would be for a stop bath (which CAN be replaced with water), not for a fixer. There are no good fixers that can be made using just "supermarket chemicals".
All that said, your vertical lines are almost certainly a scanning issue caused by dirty scanner glass. It has to be absolutely clean and dust-free and you have to make sure the negative is positioned at the correct place on the scanner glass. If you have more questions about scanning, though, you'll have to take them to another site.
Does the Microtek scanner have a film mode? Do you have the proper film holders?
I agree. Everything you ever needed to know about devloping film is at the Ilford site. Dig around for the time-temperature conversion chart. It's a one page PDF file. Very detailed from about 64 F to 78 F in 2 degree increments. Invaluable information. don't get too hung up on brands. Kodak Rapid Fixer works just as well as Ilford or any other brand. I ma getting more and more partial to Kodak Xtol diluted 1:3 for Ilford films. It worked great for me with HP5+ and I developed my first ever sheets of Delta 100 last night and they look very good.
Boy did I make a monkey of things. I do plan on fixing the negatives as soon as possible and will be going to a local camera store in morning. I will have to wait and see if the film will last. Lucky for me it was the beginning and I found out my mistake by luck. Now to explain it my better half.