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  1. #61

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    Photo flo

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom1956 View Post
    I have discovered after all these years in photography that about 1 drop of photo-flo in a tankfull of water and let bathe for 5 or 10 minutes is all you need. The instructions on photo-flo are 1:200. I figure my dilution is about 1:2000, but it works just fine. Perfectly, in fact.
    This does not mean I'm advocating the Rodinal crowd who stand develop for sixty years at obscene dilutions. In the case of photo-flo, as long as you see a few suds around the perimeter, it's doing its job. I've lived in the city half my life with wonderful high-quality city water, and the other half in the country with well water that would gag a fish, but the photo-flo results are the same.
    I have heard time and again that PhotoFlo works best when you err on the side of overdiluting, so I guess it is true. I used to get some "soap scum" with it. I recently switched to Tetenal Mirasol and the negs are crystal clear every time and the stuff costs the same as the Kodak stuff if not less (Mirasol is twice the concentration). So I won't be looking back.

  2. #62

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    Trust but verify

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    NedL;

    I try to do my best, but miss it sometimes. Thanks though.

    You are right, trial and error is best, and the test for Silver retention is a kit which has Sodium Sulfide in it. It turns yellow, brown or black depending on the level of retained silver.

    However, I point you to a thread with the subject the yellowing of prints. This person was using the Ilford method, but had prints that turned yellow quite rapidly. This was also experienced by Ctein who wrote an article on it. You see, water varies world wide, photoproducts vary in thickness and silver level and etc. Therefore it is hard to predict.

    In the US we use Chlorine to treat water, but in other parts of the world, they use Ozone for purification. This greatly complicates the situation.

    You should run your own quality assurance tests, and be aware that overwashing is as bad as underwashing.

    PE
    PE:
    Is there anyway for someone without a degree in chemistry to determine if their wash is truly archival? I'm sure Kodak tested its washing advice and 30 minutes running water is as close to a guarantee of complete washing as one can get. But how come a company with the resources of Kodak never did a study of washing in cases of water famine? Kodak literature at one time did mention using 5 changes of water, 5 minutes each with agitation if 30 minutes worth of running water wasn't available, assuming hardening hypo fixer and no HCA. Has this advice been discredited?

  3. #63
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    The retained Silver test kits and the retained Hypo test kits on the market in the US and Europe will verify archival washing if you follow the instructions.

    PE

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Testing will always help verify the quality of any wash method.

    Mason's math and reasoning has shown me how careful you must be, because without proof, any error will not show up until your prints are 20+ years old. I have some of the first prints I ever made from the time I was about 12, and they looked great to me. Recently, I found some of them in an album and they were all brown and spotty.

    PE
    PRINTS = very different washing (and clearing) needs from FILM...

    RR
    Last edited by Regular Rod; 03-05-2014 at 03:57 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37th Exposure View Post
    I have heard time and again that PhotoFlo works best when you err on the side of overdiluting, so I guess it is true. I used to get some "soap scum" with it. I recently switched to Tetenal Mirasol and the negs are crystal clear every time and the stuff costs the same as the Kodak stuff if not less (Mirasol is twice the concentration). So I won't be looking back.
    I use Mirasol as well, just be careful as you get down to the last dregs in the bottle. 1+400 is not enough. Better to work 1+1,200!

    RR

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regular Rod View Post
    PRINTS = very different washing (and clearing) needs from FILM...

    RR
    RC prints vs FB prints differ as do soft films and hard films (referring to the degree of swell), and also the type of fixer is another variable thrown into the mix considering the pH range of fixers from 4.5 to 8.0 and some having hardeners.

    PE

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    The retained Silver test kits and the retained Hypo test kits on the market in the US and Europe will verify archival washing if you follow the instructions.

    PE
    Thanks for the info. I'll look into that. At least for curiosity's sake is there still any merit to the old advice from Kodak's Non Curl (NC) Film literature that suggested a good rinse followed by five changes fresh water, five minutes each with agitation instead of 30 minutes running water (assuming hypo with hardener and no HCA)? It still turns up today. Ilford used to offer the same advice, but to increase to at least 7 changes, if using hardening fixer.

  8. #68
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    Read the earlier posts here for complete answers. I hate to rehash this again.

    PE

  9. #69
    Silverprint Italy's Avatar
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    Other warnings

    Hello, i just re-made an account on apug.

    I runned a printing lab in Rome, Italy in the 90's and i regularly teach BW techniques. For my artistic work i tend to produce very high enlargements.

    All my negs since the 80's are just fine with no signs of deterioration. I used running water at the beginning, but since early '90's I adopted a prolonged Ilford sequence (1, 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 this lasts for about 8 mins) or 5 water changes with increasing time with the Jobos.

    But as a teacher and printer I happened to see many, many negatives that showed very rapid deterioration. I asked all the people how those were processed and washed and it is my opinion that in most cases this rapid deterioration was due to (over) used fixer, rather than poor washing. Maybe the expert technicians here can explain this.

    My love for big enlargements forced me to concentrate on grain appearance. I noticed that prolonged washing or long processing reduced grain sharpness. Imho the use of hca, or other products that can svell the gelatine, for the negatives can have some effect on grain sharpness.

  10. #70
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    I agreeunderfixing and underwashing are the main causes of premature image deterioration.adopting a two-bath fixing regimen will reduce the chance of theseprocessing failures.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

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