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  1. #1

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    Tri-X in HC-110 / using "dilution H" in a small tank

    Hello,

    Thank you for a great forum, so much great info!

    I'm a complete beginner in this field, but I'll be developing my first roll of film in a few days, and have been researching online a lot, and taking advice from the people in my local photo store.

    At the store they convinced me that Tri-X and HC-110 would be the way to go, especially since I am going to be shooting some musical perfomances in low light, and need to be able to push if needed.

    During my research I stumbled upon something called "dilution H" http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/
    On this page it also says that I need to use at least 6ml of concentrate per roll. My tank only holds 290ml, and Dilution H for a 290ml tank would only contain 4.5ml of concentrate.

    Here is the question; Does that mean I'll never be able to use that dilution in this tank, or will the results be unpredictable, or what?

    If this has already been discussed, I am sorry, I couldn't find it anywhere in the forums.

    Best wishes,
    Emil

  2. #2
    David William White's Avatar
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    You might not reach full development, and that would be a shame. Question is, why not just start with dilution B until you've got a good handle on that? Consider also if you are intending to push, you need to extend your times, so why make things extra long with H? Just something to consider. BTW, I really like Tri-X in HC-110, it's a great well-tempered combination.

  3. #3

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    David has a good point. You should also do a test roll of this combo before you go shoot something important.

    More info:http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/

  4. #4
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    I thought the minimum was 3 ml (this is of the "US" syrup) for a roll. I know I've used 4 ml to make 250 ml for a 36 exp 35mm roll in my smallest tank and liked the results.

    In a downloaded copy of the Covington info I have here, I see a minimum of 3 ml recommended. (And 9.6 for the "European" version).

    EDIT: Hmm - indeed, the site now shows 6 ml. The information I have here I copied from the site in August 2006 (yes, I know he recommends against that) shows 3. So I guess maybe judicious testing is the answer. No doubt one of the hazards of using methods outside the manufacturer's recommendation in the first place.

    DaveT
    Last edited by DWThomas; 01-31-2009 at 12:10 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #5
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    If these are your first rolls, I might suggest sticking with Dilution-B, but there is no reason to avoid the higher dilution. I just skimmed my notes here... in this particular notebook (going back to Feb '07) I've developed three rolls of Tri-X in Dilution-H with quite satisfactory results. On the other hand, for two previous rolls in Dilution-B I note that my development was a little thin.

    The main advantage of Dil-H is that you have a much wider margin for error. A few seconds diffrerence at dilution-B can make a much bigger difference in your development.

    Let us know what you choose and how it works out for you.

    Cheers,
    Tom, on Point Pelee, Canada

    Ansel Adams had the Zone System... I'm working on the points system. First I points it here, and then I points it there...

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  6. #6
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    +1 on sticking with Dilution B (because the Massive Dev Chart http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html and other sources have a lot of info on it and not on H) and on using a test roll.

    In fact, I'd suggest sacrificing a roll just to get the hang of loading reels in daylight, then with your eyes closed, then in darkness. Cut the roll into three lengths or so to practice with (they might bend and tear with more practice, hence multiple segments). When you are comfortable with the loading part, practice the chemical mixing and developing part with a test roll with pics like those you plan to shoot.

    I'm an oaf and had quite a few "interesting" results with my first few rolls. In fact, I still occasionally get "interesting" results.

    Lastly, I can't stress enough using consistent temperatures and consistent technique in the darkroom. Don't over agitate. Do things gently. Make sure you grab the beaker with the stop bath after developing, not the fixer (*ahem*). Learn from the mistakes you will certainly make.
    Nikon FM2n (20/3.5, 28/3.5, 50/1.8, 55/3.5, 135/2.8), Pentax 645n (55/2.8), 3rd Eye Cameraworks 6x18 (on its way)

    http://kthompson.jalbum.net/KurtThompson/index.html

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toffle View Post
    If these are your first rolls, I might suggest sticking with Dilution-B, but there is no reason to avoid the higher dilution. I just skimmed my notes here... in this particular notebook (going back to Feb '07) I've developed three rolls of Tri-X in Dilution-H with quite satisfactory results.
    In a little single-35mm tank, though? I think the concern is not whether Dil H will work per se, but whether that small a volume of Dil H will contain enough developing agents to work well.

    It sounds like it might not, and given that Dil B is widely used and works well (albeit with widespread agreement that Kodak's published time is wrong), I don't see any reason to take chances.

    -NT

  8. #8
    Toffle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    In a little single-35mm tank, though? I think the concern is not whether Dil H will work per se, but whether that small a volume of Dil H will contain enough developing agents to work well.

    It sounds like it might not, and given that Dil B is widely used and works well (albeit with widespread agreement that Kodak's published time is wrong), I don't see any reason to take chances.

    -NT
    k.
    Tom, on Point Pelee, Canada

    Ansel Adams had the Zone System... I'm working on the points system. First I points it here, and then I points it there...

    http://tom-overton-images.weebly.com


  9. #9
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    Whoops!

    Scratch my earlier remark about having used 4 ml in 250 successfully -- I just found the actual notes and the roll I was thinking of was done in D-76 left over from something else. I have a chart made up for HC-110 and other mixtures hanging in the darkroom and the 4/250 mix was set up to leave a little free space for agitation in my one-135 tank, but apparently I haven't yet done it -- so much for relying on aging memory.

    This raises an interesting situation, as the mix I use in the larger tank for a roll of 120 wouldn't be enough to meet the 6 ml requirement for two rolls of 135 either. (Now I know why they make those foot tall tanks!) Both are well within the 3 ml rule I understood to be the norm when the chart was made --- oh well.

    In the notes I found, the developing time in D-76 was increased 10% for the 36 exp roll "per a Kodak recommendation," so there's another tidbit.

    Sorry for creating (more) confusion,

    DaveT

  10. #10

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    >>>...and given that Dil B is widely used and works well (albeit with widespread agreement that Kodak's published time is wrong...<<<

    What would you suggest as a starting time for dilution B? Seems I remember that the times were so short for B with Tri-x, which is why I tried dilution H.

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