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  1. #21

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    Sorry, I'll try again.

    You said,

    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    The development of a sheet of film starts at the edges, and works its way to the middle.
    ... and I ask "How could this be true..."

    We want development to be even across the whole sheet, yes? Then we don't want it to proceed as you described.

  2. #22
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim_bessell View Post
    Sorry, I'll try again.

    You said,



    ... and I ask "How could this be true..."

    We want development to be even across the whole sheet, yes? Then we don't want it to proceed as you described.
    What I said is: This is how a sheet of film develops in a tray. It all evens out if you develop longer.

    It happens. That is what I said. It happens, without my judgment or yours on the fact one way or the other. Not only does it happen, but it all works out fine in the end. In life, what we want or don't want are often far from what will really matter in the end, and even farther from that which simply happens. Can I not describe an occurrence without mentioning whether it is good or bad in an ideal sense? Ideals have little real world application, in photography or anywhere else.

    Also, looking back over thread thread, you said the same thing: The film develops unevenly in a tray. The difference is that you say this makes the film not do well for continuous tone results in a tray (and mentioned some of your own agitation solutions), while I said you just need to develop longer to make it unnoticeable. How are we at odds?
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 02-17-2009 at 06:20 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

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  3. #23

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    2F/2F,

    We are not at odds. I also appreciate your explanation, which I was careful to politely ask for. I have much to learn about this art, in fact, I hope I never stop learning.

    thanX

  4. #24
    Willie Jan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    I would say that your development is incomplete. I suspected it before, but the picture backs this up. One minute is a short development time for film. The development of a sheet of film starts at the edges, and works its way to the middle.
    This image was developed at 20 C for 2 minutes.
    I also developed one for 5 minutes, same result.

  5. #25
    Willie Jan's Avatar
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    I can't suspect it has to do with my development.

    1) i never had this experience in the past
    2) a sheet of agfa graphic film probably 15 years old was perfect developed!

    The edge of the film is turned black prior to the middle because in some way it is darker than the middle eventually....
    This has nothing to do with tray rocking. I never had this problem with which kind of paper (baryta/rc/...).

    Lifting the film out of the tray at one corner can create a line where the developer runs of the film like a river.
    I also had this with lith development.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Jan View Post
    I can't suspect it has to do with my development.
    Well, the problem is something you don't suspect; if it wasn't, the problem would be fixed by now.

    The only way to solve a thorny problem is to be very open minded about what might be the cause. Sometimes an experiment to try out even the silliest of ideas may give insight.
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  7. #27
    Willie Jan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Lindan View Post
    Well, the problem is something you don't suspect; if it wasn't, the problem would be fixed by now.

    The only way to solve a thorny problem is to be very open minded about what might be the cause. Sometimes an experiment to try out even the silliest of ideas may give insight.
    I even tried different music during development.
    Bach in stead of hardrock....

  8. #28

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    I looked at my notes and found 3 minutes development time to make my interpos using Dektol 1:9, agitating by lifting the film out and placing back down again during the entire time. I also use about a one minute presoak.

    Exposure time is different for everyone, depending on time and enlargement sizes, but generally, I find my times to be unusually short.

    And as someone mentioned already, the capacity of dilute developer is very, very low, maybe 3 sheets per 500 ml dilute developer.

  9. #29
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    I got a new package ortho film and developed it at 20 degrees C for 1 minute 30 seconds.

    It looked fine!

    Next I took a sheet from the old package and did the same thing.
    And guess what, It also looked fine?????????

    The only difference is that I now not only shaken the development tray at the end of the tray, but also sideways.

  10. #30
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    This is an interesting thread. I've used APHS on and off for years in pinhole cameras and as an alternative in LF lens cameras.

    I've experienced the same cloudiness issue, and this is what I've done to solve it:

    1) Development time must be at least 1:30 (for Agfa Neutol WA diluted 1:10.) Any less time than this and it will risk being uneven.

    NOTE: My initial tests with APHS proved excess contrast as a continuous tone film for scenic exposures, hence my initial reaction was to reduce development time. This does not work with APHS; instead, you must either choose a low-contrast developer (Soemarko, for example) or dilute the developer more and extend the development time.

    2) Agitation of the chemistry directly above the center of the sheet film, as it sits in the tray, using the print tongs. I develop face up in trays. Using the print tongs, agitate the chemistry periodically, in a random motion, to ensure fresh chemistry is getting to the film's surface. I don't know if the problem is related to what is called "bromide drag", but perhaps some molecular compounds are coming off the film as a result of the development process and restraining the developer action. Perhaps a vertical slot processor could be used to verify this theory.

    3) Presoak to remove the antihalation coating. It's hard to see the irregular development streaks under red lights or while in the developer under normal circumstances; even worse when your developer solution turns darker color due to the antihalation dye tinting the already dark mixture even darker. For sanity's sake I presoak, thus can reuse the developer with little concern for dye buildup in the solution.

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