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  1. #1
    Willie Jan's Avatar
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    Arista APHS Ortho litho film question

    Hi, I use

    Arista APHS Premium Halftone Supreme Ortho Litho Film

    Today i wanted to copy some negs and I found out that it had strange clouds. i did several tests with several different packages 4x5,8x10 and 10x12 with the same result.
    I tried to develop without light, same problem.
    I exposed it for 1 second at F8 (no neg in the carrier) to get a gray result, but also the same result.

    I develop with diluted paper developer.
    The film is about 2.5 years old. Always kept in fridge.

    Is there a limit in time for these films?
    Should I use rodinal in stead of paper developer?

    In the past I did not have this kind of problem. That's why i think it has to do with aging of the film...

  2. #2
    David William White's Avatar
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    Can you see the 'strange clouds' during development? If so, then some ambient source of light got to it after you pulled it out of the box. I've had this when the room lights got turned on while the APHS was in the developer tray.

    If you can't see the clouds in the develop tray or in the stop tray but only after the fixer tray, then maybe fixing should be extended or replenished.

    It's hard to imagine ortho film going bad or the whole box getting ruined. Probably one sheet at a time with stray light somewhere.

  3. #3

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    I know what you mean...I usually have to resort to .5 - .6 sec exposures. Then I don't get that cloudy look you're describing.

  4. #4

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    First off, graphic arts film keeps extremely well, so age itself should not be an issue, though storage conditions could be. I have used boxes of this film stored in a dark cabinet in So. CA, U.S.A. (a fairly warm climate) since the '50s and '60s and it works as well as new (and even looks better than APHS, IMO: better blacks and fewer pinholes).

    I would get the clouds when trying to "dial in" a dilution/mixture to lower contrast. The clouds would appear when the developer solution was too diluted. Is this your first time trying the film? If so, I might try a solution with a bit more of your developer stock in it, at least on a few sheets, just to see what happens.

    If you don't want to mix David Soemarko's LC-1 formula (not to be confused with the Ilford LC-1 formula if you look up the recipe), I would consider trying a syrupy concentrate developer like Ilford HC or Kodak HC-110. I used to use this in dilutions from 1:63 to 1:127 before I found out about D.S.'s LC-1.

    Additionally, based on my own problems with G.A. film in the past, I would make sure that you are not printing onto a bare white or yellow easel. Put a piece of black construction paper or something similar onto your easel first. Printing onto a bare white or yellow easel will increase base+fog density, which will be visible by eye in the thinnest areas. This can actually be helpful to lower the contrast of the film, but it would be better to flash in a controlled manner to do this. However, with such a short exposure, you *might* get the cloudies from this, instead of an overall fog. When going for continuous tone, I usually have exposure times that are fairly similar to the times for regular prints.

    Also: what is the temperature of the developer when you use it?
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 02-15-2009 at 04:13 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

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  5. #5

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    Are these 'strange clouds' from uneven development?

  6. #6
    Willie Jan's Avatar
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    -The temp of the developer is around 19-20 C.
    -I agiate continiously, uneven development is not possible this way
    -I always use a black underground.
    -the film is developed for 60 seconds, after that a stop and a fix.

    I have been using this film for 2-3 year, and now this stock has the problem.
    Could there be a problem with customs scanning the packages which eventually results in a visible effect???

    I first create a positive from a 6x6 negative. This positive is a 4x5, next i put the 4x5 in the 4x5 durst and enlarge it back to a neg. at the disered format. Already the first 4x5 has this strange strokes/clouds.

    (Could 60 seconds be to short???) I can't remember having this problem before...

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Jan View Post
    (Could 60 seconds be to short???) I can't remember having this problem before...
    I think it could be... depending on the developer, dilution, and amount of chemistry, which you didn't mention.

  8. #8
    Jim Noel's Avatar
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    I agree with 2f/2e - I have never had a piece of this film go bad.
    I also agree concerning the developer. Instead of diluting paper developer, use dilute film developer which is far less active than paper developer by design. Sometimes longer development will do away with the clouds.
    Check for stray or reflected light when the enlarger is on.
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Films NOT Dead - Just getting fixed![/FONT]

  9. #9
    Nicholas Lindan's Avatar
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    Um, you say 'clouds' - are these white clouds? If so, the problem could be bad fixer.
    DARKROOM AUTOMATION
    f-Stop Timers - Enlarging Meters
    http://www.darkroomautomation.com/da-main.htm

  10. #10
    Willie Jan's Avatar
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    No it's not white.
    they look like almost invisible clouds in the darker parts of the negative (but surely visible on a print...)

    I am going to test with the dilution of the developer and the time.
    I will use rodinal 1+100 in stead of amaloco 6006 paper developer (1+15)

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