Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 68,705   Posts: 1,482,807   Online: 1036
      
Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 101
  1. #11
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Minnesota
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    13,985
    Images
    279
    Hey, no I don't presoak. I did for years, but it doesn't seem to do a bit of difference. I actually think neither Ilford or Kodak recommends pre-soaking.
    Thanks for the offers of processing film for me, I really do appreciate them.

    I'm not trying to sound negative. Promise. I'm just really angry.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  2. #12
    Ian David's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,078
    Images
    16
    Thomas
    It is hard to see really clearly from your scan, but the more I looked at it the more I thought it looked like the problems I used to have. I just went and dug out and quickly scanned an old neg which exhibits the problem. I attach the relevant part of the scan here (please excuse dust spots). Looks pretty similar, don't you reckon?
    These marks were caused by my wetting agent solution as the film was hanging to dry. There is the long straight line running right down the neg (and which continues in a straight line right down the whole strip) plus the smaller tide-mark pattern on the bottom of the neg. I think the problem is generally too much Flo, although I think too little can also cause problems. What is exactly the right amount seems to vary depending upon water supply. So if the water supply/quality changes, one's usual Flo quantity may start to cause problems. As I said in my previous post above, putting a splash of Isopropyl Alcohol in the wetting agent solution with only a very small amount of Flo seems to fix the problem.
    Again, I don't know if this is your problem, but it at least looks like a contender... Don't smash up your gear yet!

    Quote Originally Posted by PVia View Post
    If you hold the negs up to a light you can see if it's something that's dried on them.

    You do presoak, don't you...please tell me you do.
    The sort of drying marks I am talking about are effectively in the emulsion. You cannot really see anything dried on the surface of the emulsion, although occasionally there are other drying marks on the backing that can be cleaned off. The marks in the emulsion cannot be removed.

    I found the following in a book by Eddie Ephraums (Creative Elements):
    "The surface tension won't be broken if too little wetting agent is added. Too much agent and the water tends to become slightly viscous, drying in rivulets that leave longitudinal drying marks within the emulsion and greasy-looking streaks on the film backing. The latter can be polished off - gently - with a cotton bud or similar."

    I don't presoak roll film - I don't think it is necessary.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DryingMarks.jpg  

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    UK
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    405
    Very strange problems that I've can't ever remember experiencing over decades, whether B/W or colour negs 35mm or 120, I've used limey (well I'm from the UK) tap water all the time, just filled a Paterson or Jobo tank with solution, banged the tank on the table at start to help remove air bubbles and then just stirred (not inverted) back and forwards, not too vigorously at the begining for about 10 secs, then gently stirred every minute for about 5 secs (that's for about 10 min dev time)...... and any limey stains, even after a final wash with a drop of standby concentrated liquid soap can be polished off with hot breath and clean material.
    All I can add is:- Know your developer and develope in a consistent way.

  4. #14
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Minnesota
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    13,985
    Images
    279
    Ian, that's interesting, and pretty much similar if not identical to what I'm seeing.

    What I have been doing with my film lately (for the past couple of months at least) is to soak it overnight in distilled water. I make sure to agitate out all of the air bubbles, then do that again five minutes later, and then I just let my film sit until the morning. When I remove the film I just hang it up - without using PhotoFlo. My theory was that since distilled water is pure, no mineral drying marks can be left behind. It worked flawlessly for at least 20 rolls, as far as drying marks go, but I guess these rolls were the ones to prove me wrong. With important rolls of film, like clockwork.

    The reason I stepped away from PhotoFlo was that I never could get it just right. Too little - no effect (didn't break the surface tension as mentioned by Ian in his quote above), or too much and it would get this slight foam that would leave drying marks in the shape of air bubbles instead.

    Having slept on it, I'm still mad... Out of 19 rolls from this trip, about five have come out OK, without a problem.

    I should try PhotoFlo again, I guess. Is there any other wetting agent out there? I saw some Sprint 'End of Run', but you have to use that with film squeegee sponges, and I'm afraid of using that. Don't want it to scratch my film.

    Ian, your post is somewhat a breakthrough, so we're on the right track. Thanks for your keen eye and observational skill.

    - Thomas
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  5. #15
    Anscojohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    2,727
    Images
    13
    Are you suggesting, then Thomas, that the perfect rolls you did as a test were not soaked overnight?

    For myself, I have NEVER heard of soaking film that long intentionally. I did it once or twice with rolls I left in the wash water after development and fixing. I just trashed them.

    What, prithee tell, causes you to think that film needs to be soaked overnight before developing?
    John, Mount Vernon, Virginia USA

  6. #16
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Minnesota
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    13,985
    Images
    279
    Hi John,

    I soaked all test films overnight in distilled water. I figured that any remnants in the film would definitely be leached out of the film. And it did work for all the other films (20 or so) until these three.

    What, kind sir, causes you to believe it would do any damage?

    - Thomas
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Rhinebeck, NY
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    80
    Wetting agent: try Fomaflo from Photographers Formulary. No foam. No problems. Easy to use.
    http://www.photoformulary.com/Deskto...ion=0&langId=0
    Soaking overnight does not seem a good idea. After all you are dealing with gelatin. If you had ever made your own emulsion, you would marvel at how Kodak et al get the stuff to hold up so well in processing!!!
    Good luck!

  8. #18
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Toronto-Ontario
    Shooter
    Med. Format RF
    Posts
    4,547
    Images
    14
    Hi Thomas

    Wetting agent scum problem as others suggest, if it is on the emulsions side yours screwed, if it is on the base side you can get it off.

    we uses 2 litres of distilled water in a graduate. small amount of kodak wetting agent mix well and then hold both ends of the film and see saw the film through for a few swipes and then hold at an angle to rapidly remove the liquid and then into a warm clean dryer.

    this is one of the most common problem with wetting agents and you need to have a method that works well for you. and then stick with it. we always top off the graduate.
    Last week we did 100rolls of 35 mm and out of all the film in a day and we did get a few areas of this shit, luckily it was on the base side and were able to get it off.
    this is something we really look at first if we see plus density on prints. Telling you how frustrating it can be would be pointless as you are obviously very pissed, but I really think its a matter of some form of deposit left on the film and it basically points only in one direction. Not using a wetting agent will incur the rath of the water spot gods , which are even worse to remove.

    Minus density on prints are usually attributed to insufficient agitation in the first 15 seconds of development or not enough chem in the container.
    I have been seeing a lot of this in recent past on this forum and it really IMO boils down to insufficient agitation to get a even flow on the surface of the film.
    I see a lot of talk for stand develop, and I shudder to think how this works with grey backgrounds, but since I do not use this method,*I use Jobo* I may be missing something that others have solved.

    You make prints like a lot of others on this forum, when a print is first put in a paper tray , if you do not agitate the results are obvious, I suggest the same thing is happening in film, if the chems do not evenly spread on the surface of the film , trying to get even nuetral shades of grey would be as easy as finding a needle in a haystack.


    If you look closely at the film you should be able to barely percieve the scum

  9. #19
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Minnesota
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    13,985
    Images
    279
    Actually, now that I think about it, I lied a little bit. Not all films have been soaked the entire duration overnight. Some were just a couple of hours. Didn't seem to matter, though.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  10. #20
    Nicholas Lindan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,372
    Images
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    soaked film overnight ... What ... would do any damage?
    My experience is that the emulsion soon floats off the film. The overnight soak may be causing all sorts of strange artifacts.

    Try PhotoFlo with a splash of isopropyl alcohol (I make a stock of 1:10 photoflo to alcohol, dilute 1:20 with distilled water for use). I wet my fingers in the PF and run the film lightly between two fingers as a 'squeegie'.

    The odd bubbly marks look like air bubbles trapped under the film reel. How are you processing the 120 - tall tanks, short tanks, plastic reels, metal reels, rotary?
    DARKROOM AUTOMATION
    f-Stop Timers - Enlarging Meters
    http://www.darkroomautomation.com/da-main.htm

Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin