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Thread: RC Papers

  1. #1
    rmolson's Avatar
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    RC Papers

    RC paper


    I started using RC paper when it first came out and was blown away with depth of the blacks. The short washing times in the then bathroom darkroom with three daughters was also a big consideration . But now in my basement darkroom I find that I am not getting the tones or depth of blacks I remember .Nor can I manipulate tone or color I know that many of the VC/RC paper s are developer incorporated which is limiting . I have tried various developers and adding carbonate etc to tone down the paper But even with selenium toning the results are not good. What’s worse with the selenium while the shadows tone to a slightly purple tone the midtone whites are unaffected, creating an optical condition where the middle grays take on a greenish cast.
    I guess instead of asking what RC papers are developer incorporated I should ask what RC papers are not.

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    Adrian Twiss's Avatar
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    Ilford Multigrade IV (with the possible exception of the warm tone) are developer incorporated. For sure, Fomatone, Fomabrom Variant and Adox Easy Print VC are not developer incorporated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Twiss View Post
    Ilford Multigrade IV (with the possible exception of the warm tone) are developer incorporated. For sure, Fomatone, Fomabrom Variant and Adox Easy Print VC are not developer incorporated.
    Could you please give a little more information on this. What is meant by "developer incorporated" and why should this make a difference especially with Ilford Multigrade IV?
    Regards,
    John

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    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Twiss View Post
    Ilford Multigrade IV (with the possible exception of the warm tone) are developer incorporated. For sure, Fomatone, Fomabrom Variant and Adox Easy Print VC are not developer incorporated.
    Ilford Multigrade IV is NOT developer incorporated, there was a long thread about this a few months ago and Simon Galley confirmed this.

    John, the early Ilfospeed papers had Hydroquinone incorporated in the emulsion, this meant that the paper could be developed extremely rapidly in an alkaline solution. In fact no developer was required at all and they could be processed in an Activator solution essentially NaOH or KOH with a few additives to prevent fogging.

    Ilford changed the Multigrade papers I think with version two and removed the incorprated developer. I know at that point they would no longer process in my Ilfoprint machine, and I stopped using it.

    With a developer incorporated paper choice of developer is far less important, you do get good rich blacks regardless of how exghausted or dilutethe developer, however modern Ilford RC papers are just as capable of giving similar quality images.

    Ian

  5. #5
    JBrunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmolson View Post
    RC paper


    I started using RC paper when it first came out and was blown away with depth of the blacks. The short washing times in the then bathroom darkroom with three daughters was also a big consideration . But now in my basement darkroom I find that I am not getting the tones or depth of blacks I remember .Nor can I manipulate tone or color I know that many of the VC/RC paper s are developer incorporated which is limiting . I have tried various developers and adding carbonate etc to tone down the paper But even with selenium toning the results are not good. What’s worse with the selenium while the shadows tone to a slightly purple tone the midtone whites are unaffected, creating an optical condition where the middle grays take on a greenish cast.
    I guess instead of asking what RC papers are developer incorporated I should ask what RC papers are not.
    FWIW I don't think your issue is the paper. More likely your enlarger, contrast control, overly flat negatives, or developer. Have you tried processing a totally flashed paper scrap? That would give you a baseline for black, assuming your developer is good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    Ilford Multigrade IV is NOT developer incorporated, there was a long thread about this a few months ago and Simon Galley confirmed this.

    John, the early Ilfospeed papers had Hydroquinone incorporated in the emulsion, this meant that the paper could be developed extremely rapidly in an alkaline solution. In fact no developer was required at all and they could be processed in an Activator solution essentially NaOH or KOH with a few additives to prevent fogging.

    Ilford changed the Multigrade papers I think with version two and removed the incorprated developer. I know at that point they would no longer process in my Ilfoprint machine, and I stopped using it.

    With a developer incorporated paper choice of developer is far less important, you do get good rich blacks regardless of how exghausted or dilutethe developer, however modern Ilford RC papers are just as capable of giving similar quality images.

    Ian
    I thought this was the case.
    Many thanks for the confirmation.
    Regards,
    JOhn

  7. #7

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    I can understand the dev. incorporated papers processed in activator may have less contrast and/or density; but if they're developed for "normal" times in Dektol or whatever, would they not equal their non-dev. incorporated brethren? I've not seen much difference - other than the quicker image formation time.

    Bob H
    "Why is there always a better way?"

  8. #8
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    The older developer incorporated papers gave the same contrast & D-max in an Activator as they did in Ilfospeed developer or PQ Universal/ Dektol etc. The only difference was the speed of development. Having said that I made up an activator specifically for the early dev incorporated Ilfospeed papers.

    Ian

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    OK Ian, thanks. It seems to me that the dev. incorporated papers are somewhat denigrated by the cognoscenti but I've failed to notice the difference. I'm just glad it's not my lack of discernment!

    Bob H
    "Why is there always a better way?"

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    JBrunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobNewYork View Post
    OK Ian, thanks. It seems to me that the dev. incorporated papers are somewhat denigrated by the cognoscenti but I've failed to notice the difference. I'm just glad it's not my lack of discernment!

    Bob H
    I would suspect that for normal developing it wouldn't make any discernible difference. Perhaps it is an issue with those using water bath or two bath developer techniques?

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