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Thread: Ansco 130

  1. #131
    Vlad Soare's Avatar
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    There's something I don't understand. What is it that gives Ansco 130 such a long life? It doesn't have more sulfite than regular metol-hydroquinone developers. The amounts of metol, hydroquinone and carbonate are also quite common. The amount of bromide is admittedly a little higher than usual, but I doubt that it has any effect on the keeping properties.
    So it must be the glycin. But how can glycin influence the oxidation rate of the metol and hydroquinone? A few scenarios spring to mind:

    1. The glycin somehow replenishes the metol and/or hydroquinone.
    2. The glycin oxidizes, and its oxidation products somehow replenish the metol and/or hydroquinone.
    3. The glycin oxidizes, and its oxidation products somehow inhibit the oxidation of the metol and/or hydroquinone, acting like a sort of preservative.
    4. The glycin oxidizes faster than the metol and hydroquinone, and by oxidizing it uses up the oxygen in the solution, so that the metol and hydroquinone cannot oxidize as fast as they would otherwise.
    5. The glycin is so active that it can develop normally despite the oxidation of the metol and/or hydroquinone. In other words, the developer works fine with or without metol/hydroquinone and doesn't care if they oxidize.

    I think it would be interesting to mix a batch without glycin and one with glycin only (no metol or hydroquinone), and to compare them with a regular batch of 130. Has anybody tried this yet?

  2. #132
    eclarke's Avatar
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    My stock lasts a long,long time. I use it at 1+3 73 degrees because that's where I like my prints the best. The stuff will function for a long time but after about 20 11x14 prints and/or 8 hours starts to change a bit. Developer is cheap and paper is expensive so I throw it out at that point..Evan Clarke

  3. #133
    Murray Kelly's Avatar
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    Vlad said:
    I think it would be interesting to mix a batch without glycin and one with glycin only (no metol or hydroquinone), and to compare them with a regular batch of 130. Has anybody tried this yet?

    Vlad, cast your optics on #112 above. Half your question is answered. D-72

  4. #134
    Vlad Soare's Avatar
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    OK, so 130 without glycin and with less bromide is more or less like Dektol. But Dektol doesn't live too long once diluted, and adding a lot of bromide to it isn't going to extend its useful life (at least I don't think so - please correct me if I'm wrong). So the outstanding keeping properties of the 130 must have something to do with the glycin.
    So, either the glycin slows down the decomposition of the metol and/or hydroquinone, or it's active enough to develop on its own even after the metol and hydroquinone have long oxidized. If the latter were true, then the 130 should work more or less normally without any metol or hydroquinone.
    Or maybe the glycin can't work normally on its own, but it's so extremely superadditive to metol and hydroquinone that it only requires a slight amount of them to get started. I mean, perhaps it doesn't care if 90% of the metol is oxidized, because the remaining 10% is enough.

    I'd really like to know what exactly it is that gives this developer its unusually long life. Any ideas?
    Last edited by Vlad Soare; 05-18-2011 at 03:00 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #135
    Murray Kelly's Avatar
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    A-ha! There's the rub. All good questions but after pages and pages nobody has actually addressed that point.

    Does anyone actually have an answer? Is it something to do with the glycin molecular structure?

  6. #136

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    agfa did make a print developer that was similar to their 130
    but without either the h-q or metol ... but unfortunately i can't
    put my finger on what it was called ... agfa 2 ?
    ... i don't know if it had the staying/keeping power of 130 ...
    maybe it was the 3 agents all working together ?

    df cardwell used to use the developer i am trying to think of
    ... if he were here, might have answers to these questions he knew this sort of stuff ...

  7. #137

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    Without a little bit of metol, the glycin doesn't seem to work at all. My guess is that it is something
    superadditive.

  8. #138
    cjbecker's Avatar
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    On a different note, I have been comparing 130 and pf liquidol. After many prints the 130 has come out on top. The 130 has more contrast and better tonality (for me). It has a higher Dmax and amazing highlights but you lose some of the middle tones. (That is how I like my prints.) It also makes the image sharper because of the contrast. The liquidol has amazing tray life, and ease of use. The middle tones are where it shines. It has a smoother look to it and less contrast. It does make skin look very beautiful. They both are great developers but 130 fits my taste.

  9. #139
    JPD
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    Who came up with the formula, Agfa or Ansco?
    J. Patric Dahlén

  10. #140

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    What is now commonly known as "130" was originally called "ANSCO 130" Universal paper developer.

    I have in my hands a book titled "Ansco Formulas" for black and white photography. This book is a
    "Revised to July 1946" edition, 36 pages, giving 50 formulas, and the procedures for use of those formulas. Some of which, as of that publication, were prepackaged for sale and others that were apparantly just published.
    Price 10 cents.

    The formula that Photographers Formulary packages today is the exact formula that is published in that book.The formula is as follows to make 1 liter.
    Metol 2.2 grams
    Sodium sulifite 50 grams
    Hydroquinone 11 grams
    Sodium Carbonate Monohydrate 78 grams
    Potassium Bromide 5.5 grams
    Glycin 11 grams

    "This formula is a universal developer for all projection and contact papers. It gives rich black tones with excellent brilliance and detail. Ansco 130 provides unusual latitude in development and is clean working even with long development times."
    "The prepared stock solution is clear but slightly colored. The coloration in this case does not indicate the developer has deteriorated or is unfit for use."
    "For use, dilute 1 part stock solution with 1 part water."
    "Normal developing time at 68 F (20 C)" then a list of no longer available paper is listed, but development time is listed from 1 to 6 minutes depending on paper.
    "Greater contrast can be obtained by using the developer stock solution full strength. Softer results can be obtained by diluting 1 part stock solution with 2 parts water."

    There you go. That is the info supplied in 1946 in a promotional pamphlet from Ansco.
    Hope that helps. 49 other Ansco formulas in pamphlet if anybody needs clarification on other Ansco product. Including film and paper developers, toners, fixers, intensifiers, reducers, hardener formulas,desensitizers.

    Hope this helps out.
    Thanxs
    Bud



 

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