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  1. #11

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    Let me make sure I understand what you're describing correctly. You have one hand on the lid and one the bottom. You turn the tank 180 degrees so it's upside down, and then back rightside up, repeating multiple times. I did this exactly for the first 30 seconds. I also tapped the bottom on my table to dislodge air bubbles.

    I also wasn't trying to skimp on chem. I pushed the film to 1600, and 16minutes in B is the only way I found posted, so I figured I'd start from there.

  2. #12
    Anscojohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckBassist View Post
    I developed my first roll of 120 a few days ago. I noticed a vertical "band" in 4 of the 12 exposures (exposures #4, 6, 9, and 10).

    I can't be sure, but I don't think it's caused by the camera because the shots used different apertures and shutter speeds. On the other hand, I'm not convinced it's caused by the developer either because the exposures would either have this "band" or not have it entirely.

    So could this have been caused by the developing process?

    *********
    Sacrifice another roll of film. Take junk exposures. Outdoor lighting.

    The frame numbering is suspicious to me: it has something to do with where the film is at a certain time. This COULD be where the frames are in the developing reel and hence be an agitation problem, as Frank suggests. Or not.
    On the other hand, the fact that the problem is intermittent; and runs parallel to the film edges, might indicate some kind of a flare problem caused by the shutter. Do you have the bronzed metal shutter curtains or the dark cloth curtains?
    John, Mount Vernon, Virginia USA

  3. #13

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    I have the bronzed metal shutter curtains.

    I plan to sacrifice a roll to experiment. I just don't know when I can get around to it.

  4. #14
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    If this is how you are doing it , then it stumps me as these look exactly like road ruts I have experienced in the past ..... and that was definately uneven development problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckBassist View Post
    Let me make sure I understand what you're describing correctly. You have one hand on the lid and one the bottom. You turn the tank 180 degrees so it's upside down, and then back rightside up, repeating multiple times. I did this exactly for the first 30 seconds. I also tapped the bottom on my table to dislodge air bubbles.

    I also wasn't trying to skimp on chem. I pushed the film to 1600, and 16minutes in B is the only way I found posted, so I figured I'd start from there.

  5. #15
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    I forgot to ask: do these areas of different density cross over slightly to the next frame; or so they stop at the frame lines? If the latter, I think we can throw out something that happens in the developing tank.
    John, Mount Vernon, Virginia USA

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckBassist View Post
    I have the bronzed metal shutter curtains.

    I plan to sacrifice a roll to experiment. I just don't know when I can get around to it.
    *****
    The cloth curtains would have indicated a retrofit and lead me to discount a shutter flare problem.

    The metal curtains are, I am told, prone to flare problems. That being said, I have the original bronze curtains and have never (touch wood) had a flare problem from the shutter blades.

    And as I stated in my last question, if the "flare" lines stop at the between frame edges, and the areas between frames are clear, we must begin to think it is something happening in the camera; rather than through a leak in the magazine or something in the developing tank.
    John, Mount Vernon, Virginia USA

  7. #17

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    They don't cross over to the adjacent frames, which I brought up in the original post. There're only two affected frames that are next to each other, and now that I'm looking at the negatives, the "band" on the two adjacent affected frames don't line up perfectly, they're at a slight angle in each affected frame.

    I was hoping this would be a developing problem because I don't see a pattern in aperture or shutter speed in the affected frames. It's also odd that the "bands" are darker rather than lighter.

    Since the "bands" are not perfectly vertical, can we rule out a shutter curtain problem?

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckBassist View Post
    They don't cross over to the adjacent frames, which I brought up in the original post. There're only two affected frames that are next to each other, and now that I'm looking at the negatives, the "band" on the two adjacent affected frames don't line up perfectly, they're at a slight angle in each affected frame.
    *******
    So the areas of differing density do not carry into the clear area between frames. Thus, I would think, this is coming from the lens side of the camera only.

    I was hoping this would be a developing problem because I don't see a pattern in aperture or shutter speed in the affected frames.
    *****
    Yes. That would be easy to fix.

    It's also odd that the "bands" are darker rather than lighter.
    ******
    Darker on the negative--meaning they are getting more light? That is, flare light in addition to the exposure.

    Since the "bands" are not perfectly vertical, can we rule out a shutter curtain problem?
    ******
    Not necessarily. The shutter is moving the whole time across the frame. But, in any case, it is a real conundrum; and I wish I could come up with something definite for you. The key, it seems to me, is if the density differential is at all to be seen in the clear area specifically above or below one of the affected frames.
    Last edited by Anscojohn; 03-20-2009 at 05:52 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    John, Mount Vernon, Virginia USA

  9. #19

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    The bands are lighter on the negative, darker in the reversed picture.

    At this point, I think I'll just have to wait until I go through an experimental roll to see if it happens again.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckBassist View Post
    The bands are lighter on the negative, darker in the reversed picture.
    *******
    Being the dinosaur I am, I do not know if scanning works the same way as printing a neg would. Still, we've got differential density. That's either a problem with exposure or development (or heaven forefend, both) It does not carry into the clear film beyond the frame. That leads to rule out exposure outside of the camera--like a faulty tank. Development still remains; but it is on intermittens frame--so that tends to rule out faulty development. This leads to something happening in the camera. Since it does not go beyond the exposed area of the film, we discount faulty light seals. What remains is the shutter. And the varying density could conceivably be caused by an erratic shutter moving too quickly (crud in the retarding-escapement mechanism of the mechanical shutter) resulting in underexposure (neg too light) coupled with a shutter flare problem giving excess anomolous density in other areas (neg too dark.). What a conundrum.

    At this point, I think I'll just have to wait until I go through an experimental roll to see if it happens again.
    *****
    Yes. But wait a while--see if the gremlins will get bored through inactivity and go someplace else--like your neighbor's sound system!!!
    John, Mount Vernon, Virginia USA

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