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  1. #21

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    I do recall some information in the instructions that came with RP that occasionally the problems that you describe regarding the base side do occur....the wet loading solution was provided along with the developer instructions from B and S. When I use RP and the expert tanks I do not have the problem with the antihalation backing, etc.

    Regarding off and on cycles while operating the lift, I agree that starting and stoping the motor provides another set of stresses. As I recall, Jobo did NOT recommend turning the motor on and off while operating the lift, and even pointed out that the "grating and breaking sound" as the gears mesh and unmesh is normal. ( see below added AFTER posting).

    Oren....one can usually time the raising of the lift at the end of the cycle in either direction, but lowering the lift to hit the gear exactly at a "still point" is very difficult I think. Can you lower the lift to reliably time the cycle?

    It is a relief to learn of 900 sheets developed without any problems at all....that's alot of film msage! Do you keep the volumes of solutions at a lower level, i.e., develop less sheets at a time?

    Ed

    Added after posting is the following information from Jobo. Most of the information is well known to all of us, but is posted nevertheless for completion and information.

    Instructions for the
    CPA-2 and CPP-2
    JOBO Lift #4072


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Introduction

    The JOBO Lift (Part #4072) for both the CPA-2 and the CPP-2 Processors simplifies processing. It eliminates the need to remove the tank or drum during the process. Filling and draining of chemicals and rinse water from the tank or drum is done with the JOBO Lift. This enhancement ends wet hands and messy counter tops, improves timing accuracy, and gives better chemical distribution. The JOBO Lift can be added to the CPA-2 or CPP-2 Processors at any time with a minimum of effort.

    Note:

    These directions augment those of the CPA-2 and CPP-2 Instruction Manual. Please read both sets of instructions before operating your processor with the JOBO Lift accessory attached.

    Index

    Introduction
    Index
    Compatibility
    Improvements
    Installing the Lift
    Mounting the Drive Cog
    Mounting the Lift Handle
    Mounting the Lift on the Motor Head
    Adjusting the Lift for the Tank or Drum to be Used
    Adjusting the Roller Block
    Setting the Coupler
    Operating the Lift
    Lift Care, Tips and Maintenance
    Other Instructional Pages
    Back to Top


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    Compatibility

    The CPA-2 and CPP-2 JOBO lift can be used with any 1500 or 2500 series film tank, 2800 or 3000 series print drum, and any of the Expert Drums (3000 series). Older, discontinued tank or drum models cannot be upgraded to work with the JOBO Lift system, as they used screw type lids that are not suitable for lift coupling.

    For more details on making a tank or drum usable with the JOBO lift, see the page: Cogs and Magnets

    Back to Top


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    Improvements

    The latest version of the lift has improvements in the tank coupling system. You can identify the version you have by examining the tank retention clips (they hold the lid's cog gear to the lift). The current version has black, horizontally aligned clips. The earlier version has white, vertically aligned clips. Both versions work well in holding the tank to the lift. The newer version allows an easier method of replacement for these clips, in the event of a failure.



    [ New Style Lift ]
    [ Pins on Older Lift ]


    In addition to the clips design, the method of tank coupling selection has been changed. The earlier version used a sliding set of pins, that traveled in a diagonal slot, to change from the upper and lower coupling position. The newer version has a red, bell shaped cap, that is transferred from one coupling position to the other instead of the sliding pins.

    Other than these two changes, the instructions below are applicable to all JOBO Lifts for the CPA-2 and CPP-2.

    Note:

    The later version of the lift has two molded holes for the Transfer Gear Set (#95200). Only one set of gears, towards the back of the processor (or right side, if looking towards the motor head) set is installed. The other molded hole is not supplied with a gear set. The lift is not "missing" a set of gears. Do not install another set of gears in this position. The lift will not function correctly with two sets of transfer gears installed. (The same arm piece molding is used with the Auotolab series processors, which do require both sets, to work properly.) For more information about this, go to: Why does my JOBO Lift look like it is missing a transfer gear?

    Back to Top


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    Installing the Lift




    Please follow all these steps to safely and easily install your lift on either the CPA-2 or CPP-2 processors.

    Caution:

    Turn off and unplug your processor before proceeding with the installation procedures listed below.


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    Mounting the Drive Cog

    To install the drive cog, first unscrew the drive magnet. Replace the drive magnet with the correct drive cog (see below) and tighten the screw securely.

    Notes:

    There are two different versions of the drive cog to correspond to the two versions of rotation motors used in both the CPA-2 and CPP-2. Earlier rotation motors have a straight shaft, and the drive cog (or drive magnet) is attached with a slot headed screw. Later motors have a tapered shaft, and the drive cog (or drive magnet) is attached with a hex headed screw. You cannot use a tapered shaft cog with a straight shaft motor (or vice-versa).
    New lifts come supplied with the tapered shaft drive cog. If you want to install a new lift on an older processor with the straight shaft motor, contact JOBO to obtain the correct drive cog.
    The drive cogs on earlier versions of the processors were white. The current version drive cogs are black. The newer black drive cogs are used with all versions of the processors.
    Caution:

    You must replace the white drive cog, supplied with the earlier version of the JOBO Lift, with the current black drive cog, when installing a new style lift on a processor that had the earlier style lift previously installed. Old lifts will work with the black drive cog or white drive cog, but the newer lifts must use the black drive cog. Do not use the newer lift with the original white drive cog on the processor, replace the white drive cog with the newer black drive cog.

    Use part number #95523, a black drive cog, for the straight rotation motor shaft. Tapered shaft rotation motors require a black drive cog, part number #95555.

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    Mounting the Lift Handle



    Note the dimple in the end of the metal tube on the end opposite of the knurled cap. Match this dimple to the slot molded in the back side of the handle hub piece. Slide the metal tube fully onto the handle hub and rotate the tube clockwise until resistance is felt. It should not be necessary to force the mounting or the turning of the handle, if they are aligned properly.

    Caution:



    The black, cone shaped piece (about 16mm or 1/2" in size, mounted on the near side of the lift, at the same height as the hub and closer to the drain hose), is a stop used to prevent the puling of the lift handle too far counterclockwise. Do not use this cone as a 'locking' or 'holding' device. Pulling the handle beyond the stop point may break the handle or internal mechanisms.


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    Mounting the Lift on the Motor Head

    Remove the two large upper stainless steel screws located just above the motor drive shaft on the motor head. Do not remove the lower stainless steel screw. If there are washers glued to the motor head under the screws, do not remove them.

    Locate the clip on the lower drain side of the lift. This clip snaps over the left side of the motor head and secures the left side of the lift to the motor housing.



    [ Clip ]

    Place the lift on top of the motor housing. be sure the clip on the left side of the lift is engaged under the lip of the motor housing.

    Raise the right side of the lift slightly, and place the smaller washers in the screw holes left when you removed the stainless steel screws. If there are already are washers on the screw holes, do not remove them. Use these washers instead of the ones supplied with the lift. Releasing the lift will put a small amount of tension on the washers, holding them in place.

    Put the lager washers onto the threads of the black plastic screws. Place the black plastic screws into the lift mounting holes. Put the screw closer to you in place first. The further screw should be started at an upward angle. This second screw will work its way to horizontal as it is screwed in place. The slight amount of tension created by this downward securing of the screw will help to keep the lift in place securely.

    Caution:

    Do not over-tighten these screws. The black plastic screws are designed to hold the lift securely in place, yet break if they are over-tightened. This prevents the serious damage to the lift, that would result from over-tightening the stainless steel screws, if used instead.



    Adjusting the Lift for the Tank or Drum to be Used


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Adjusting the Roller Block



    [ 1500 Series ]



    [ 2500 and 2800 Series ]



    [ 3000 Series ]

    Slide the roller block along the tubular rails on the lower portion of the Lift. Position it so the black body of the tank being used rests on the rollers as far to the right under the tank as possible. Do not allow the tank to rotate on the Tank lid or module's red ring, or 3000 series drum joints.

    Note:



    You may use the trough roller block that came with the processor in addition to the one mounted on the lift. Although its use is not required, additional support for longer tanks and drums is provided with the second set of rollers. Be sure to adjust the second set the same as the first. (The trough roller block will remain mounted in the upper trough, and is not raised when the lift is raised.)


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Setting the Coupler



    Select the correct chemical/wash outlet (on the lift arm, looks like two horizontal nozzles one above the other) by plugging the unused outlet with the bell-shaped red cap. (The upper outlet is only used for 3000 series drums; all others use the lower outlet.) Be sure to press the cap firmly in place. If the cap is too loose, it will rub against the tank lid, and may cause the tank to de-couple from the lift.

    Note:



    [ Pins on Older Lift ]

    The earlier version of the JOBO Lift uses a different mechanism to set the selected tank position. No red cap is used. There is a diagonal slot on the side of the lift arm between the two coupling positions. A set of pins project out of this slot. The pins are pulled up for the 3000 series drums, and pulled down for all other tanks and drums. A small white stick protrudes from the position between the couplers. As the pins move, the stick moves in the opposite direction. This stick prevents the mounting of a tank or drum on the unselected coupler. The pins lock into place with quite a lot of pressure. It may take two hands to change positions.

    Back to Top


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    Operating the Lift



    [ Funnel ]

    Tanks and drums are filled immediately by pouring liquids into the built-in funnel in the top of the JOBO Lift. Liquids are drained from the tank or drum by moving the lever of the JOBO Lift counterclockwise to allow the liquid to flow out the hose on the left side of the JOBO Lift.




    Practice mounting and removing a tank or drum on the JOBO Lift, before you start actual processing.

    Note:

    <The retention clips may snap loudly when removing the tank or drum. This sound is normal. When lowering the lift, the cog gear will mesh with the transfer gear. They may make a 'thunk' noise as they engage. This sound is normal too.>

    So, there is no mention of the need to turn the motor on and off while raising and lowering the lift.
    EM
    Last edited by Mahler_one; 04-08-2009 at 09:57 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahler_one View Post
    Oren....one can usually time the raising of the lift at the end of the cycle in either direction, but lowering the lift to hit the gear exactly at a "still point" is very difficult I think. Can you lower the lift to reliably time the cycle?
    Pretty much, although sometimes when I'm really tired I get a bit sloppy. The key is to lower it most of the way, pause, and then let it fall into place at just the right moment.

    Very important, though, to do it smoothly - that is, never jerk the Lift arm when you've got a drum on the Lift, especially the 3004 or 3005. Ideally, you should support the cradle from underneath as you're lifting and lowering, not have the arm carry all the load. (Yes, this means I'm constantly getting my fingers wet from dunking in the upper water bath.) Underneath the shiny metallic sheath the Lift arm is plastic, and the point where the arm joins the hub is subject to fatigue and can crack if you stress it chronically.

  3. #23
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    For those of us still using cars/trucks with stick shift (356 Porsches for me), the fine art of shifting when the clutch has failed or double clutching carries over to this. You are equalizing the two gear speeds. It doesn't have to be perfect. I find that I don't have to catch it just at the stop, but can slide the gears in just before and after. It is much easier in one direction, I think counter clockwise rotation. This thinking just expands the window when you can mesh without grinding. Obviously at the stop is best.

    John

  4. #24

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    Ah....when I was younger I drove a Porsche 911 turbo...now that I am considerably older I would have trouble even getting into that car...let me see if I can find a recording of the engine...I'll shift the lift...seriously, interesting analogy...well done! Interesting that I too find that the counter clockwise rotation fits my eye better....I wonder why.

    Now that I'm thinking about it, let me ask you Jobo users another question: Anyone using the 2840 drums for 11x14 negatives? I know that the subject has been discussed on APUG before, but this group seems to be particularly well informed about Jobo matters, and I wonder if anyone can help me avoid any major gaffes. I'm installing a cog on the tank, reinstalling the filter to make the tank light tight, and proceeding with the volumes necessary for an 11x14 sheet. I'm using FP4, so I don't believe anti-halation will be a problem ( or will it?! ). Anyone have suggestions that might help?

    Ed

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahler_one View Post
    Ah....when I was younger I drove a Porsche 911 turbo...now that I am considerably older I would have trouble even getting into that car...

    Now that I'm thinking about it, let me ask you Jobo users another question: Anyone using the 2840 drums for 11x14 negatives? .....Ed
    Ed,

    I still have the 1964 356 C coupe I bought new. It is off the road now waiting a brake rebuild. My driver is a 1955 pre A 356 Speedster that a friend restored in the 1970s and I bought 1980. They both have the hp of the Turbo's starter motor though. I was 69 last week.

    I mentioned earlier that I use a combined 2830 and 2560 to process two sheets of 7x17 per load. I don’t know the 2840. Is there a relationship where what I have would provide helpful information?

    John

  6. #26

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    Same age...how do you get into the car without becoming a pretzel....I am pretty limber, still about 6'1''...I can get in, but can I get out?! GREAT CARS!!!

    I think the tanks can be used in the same way jp...the volumes listed worry me a bit. The small volume listed ( about 120 cc more or less ) on the 2840 is for prints, and for 11x14 I think I need about 16 oz of solution ( DDX at 1:9 usually ). Of course, I poured in 480cc of water, and the tank easily holds that much, turns easily on the CPP, and is easily lifted using the lift and support with the right hand. So, I think the next thing is to take a photo, and see what happens. Any residual anti-halation layer should be easily removable in a tray of clean water.

    We must be amongst the most senior people on APUG....I wonder if we should consider forming a "Senior Citizen APUG" category here....seriously....some of us are new ( like me ) to LF photography, and others simply want to share concerns with issues that might not affect our younger colleagues...anyone else out there interested in an "older than ???" group?

    Thanks JP....do you do anything differently with the 2800 tanks rather than the expert tanks?

  7. #27
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    Ed,
    Same age...how do you get into the car without becoming a pretzel....I am pretty limber, still about 6'1''...I can get in, but can I get out?! GREAT CARS!!!

    The Speedster solves that problem. No self respecting Speedster owner would dare drive with the top up. You sign a contract at purchase even second hand. Getting out is as simple as exiting your bathtub, but that is not why they call it that.

    I think the tanks can be used in the same way jp...the volumes listed worry me a bit. The small volume listed ( about 120 cc more or less ) on the 2840 is for prints, and for 11x14 I think I need about 16 oz of solution ( DDX at 1:9 usually ). Of course, I poured in 480cc of water, and the tank easily holds that much, turns easily on the CPP, and is easily lifted using the lift and support with the right hand. So, I think the next thing is to take a photo, and see what happens. Any residual anti-halation layer should be easily removable in a tray of clean water.

    You are new to this. Yes you do have to take a photo – mandatory unless you are one of the 50% of all Leica owners the factory says keeps their camera in the collector’s closet.

    My 2830/2560 is roughly 5.5 “ x 21.75” outside dimensions just to confirm we are talking similar pieces. I just use the standard dose of 1 ltr water, 15ml part A, 30 ml part B of Rollo Pyro. That may be too much but it has worked well for three years. I would hate to start experimenting now.


    We must be amongst the most senior people on APUG....I wonder if we should consider forming a "Senior Citizen APUG" category here....seriously....some of us are new ( like me ) to LF photography, and others simply want to share concerns with issues that might not affect our younger colleagues...anyone else out there interested in an "older than ???" group?

    If you look about here and the LF Forum http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/index.php I think you will find there is a crowd of folks on either side of our age. You will see a lot of threads on how to move this stuff around and how Brett Weston said nothing further than 50 feet from the car is photogenic. I use http://babyjogger.com/perf_jogger_lp.aspx. Welcome aboard and enjoy.

    Thanks JP....do you do anything differently with the 2800 tanks rather than the expert tanks?
    Nope.

    John Powers

  8. #28

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    You mean the camera is actually to be used JP? But....what is that flimsy sheet stuff in the boxes....you know, the stuff with the notches on one end....seriously, thanks for the help...and, the information about the volumes JP.

    Had no idea about the 50% of Leica owners, etc.

    Ed

  9. #29

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    I've have the Jobo myself, one way rotation is for film, 2-way is for paper, I found out after calling Jobo USA. This is especially important with roll film or you can experience the film to unroll the reels during the development. I also believe the agitation becomes to harsh with the two way option for film.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahler_one View Post
    Had no idea about the 50% of Leica owners, etc.
    Ed
    Quote attributed to an unnamed factory rep by Leica posting folks on the Rangefinder Forum. That is about as loose as facts come, but it makes the people on the forum feel good because they all say they use their cameras. Supposedly the OTHER people put theirs in the china cabinet. I guess I am safe because my 7x17 won't fit in our china cabinet.

    John Powers

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