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  1. #1

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    Two rolls, one tank, different results

    I'm a bit puzzled by some film processing results from last night.

    I processed two rolls of Arista II (APX 400) in one tank (AP Compact) with Ilfosol 3 (fresh, one-shot, 1+9 dilution for 10 minutes at 18C.) They were stopped for 30 sec in Kodak indicator stop, and fixed for 3 minutes in Ilford Rapid Fix, then washed per Ilford's recommendations.

    I've examined the negs this morning after drying, and one roll has very good contrast, with black-blacks (including the edge lettering) and is nice and clear on the edge of the frame. The other roll, seems to have a grey cast to the clear parts, is lower contrast, and the edge lettering seems dark grey instead of black.

    I can't honestly say which roll was on top in the tank, but the they were both well covered. Agitation seems OK, because each roll is very evenly developed.

    I would have chalked it up to different exposure between the two rolls, except that the edge and edge lettering are different as well.

    Anyone have any suggestions as to what happened?
    My other camera is a Pentax

  2. #2
    glbeas's Avatar
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    Do you invert the tank when agitating? Twist agitation with a spindle like some of the cheaper tanks have will allow bromides to accumilate in the lower part of the tank and possibly cause problems.
    One other possiblity is the bad roll may have been expired film and the grey cast is age fogging and loss of speed caused it to be less dense.
    Gary Beasley

  3. #3
    BetterSense's Avatar
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    If Arista II is APX400, is there a flavor of Arista film that corresponds to APX100?

  4. #4

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    So, were the two rolls from the same batch of film? Perhaps one was stored refrigerated and one not? Perhaps one roll was stored under extremely adverse conditions and the other not? Assuming, for the moment as you say, that both rolls are evenly developed, and don't exhibit any signs of uneven development; I'm not convinced that you have a case of insufficient agitation. Look carefully at the negatives with a loupe to check for signs of uneven development. These will usually present most prominently as vertical bands of uneven density in where there should be even density (think open skies) with 35 mm. stocks in this tank.
    Frank Schifano

  5. #5
    David William White's Avatar
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    It seems to be really common that folks insufficiently fix their film, and a uniform grey fog after drying & sitting in daylight will show up. The reason I'd like you to consider refixing your film is that, unlike hypotheses about development & agitation, you can quickly confirm/deny a fixing problem and likely salvage your negatives, rather than trying better "next time".

    What dilution did you mix the Ilford fixer to? Some go 1+9 (for paper only!) instead of 1+4 (for film).

    Three minutes seems awfully short, even with fairly fresh fixer. It's supposed to be at least twice the time it takes to clear the film.

    Luckily, you can refix the film and get rid of the fog, bringing the contrast & tonality back. Check your fixer, replenish if necessary, and drop the film in a tray or bowl filled with fixer and let her go for another 5 to 10 minutes, then wash. It will only take you that long to fix your negatives, and refixing will not eat away at your developed image, so no worries.

    Anyways, common problem, easy solution, and if that's not it, then you can start to look elsewhere. But this is step #1.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterSense View Post
    If Arista II is APX400, is there a flavor of Arista film that corresponds to APX100?
    There was indeed. Arista II (Agfa APX of course) came in both 100 & 400 ISO.

  7. #7

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    Thanks for the input. I will try fixing them again -- I didn't know you could do that.

    I mixed it to 1+4.

    The Ilford Rapid Fixer instructions say 2 to 5 minutes. I started off at 5 minutes for a few rolls, but read somewhere that you could "over-fix" so I thought I'd be conservative and drop it back to 3 minutes.

    How long is too long in fixer?
    My other camera is a Pentax

  8. #8
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    Sounds like two rolls have been stored differently. One sounds old and/or fogged, and the other sounds fine. Did one sit in your camera or on the shelf for a while, or is it possible that it sat some time in a hot car without you noticing?

    In my experience, 3 minutes is more than enough time in Ilford Rapid Fixer, if it is relatively fresh.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by filmamigo View Post
    I mixed it to 1+4.

    The Ilford Rapid Fixer instructions say 2 to 5 minutes. I started off at 5 minutes for a few rolls, but read somewhere that you could "over-fix" so I thought I'd be conservative and drop it back to 3 minutes.?
    Just a warning: some of the recent Ilford Rapid Fixer bottles had incorrect labeling; the directions were given for Ilford paper fixer. Thankfully yours were correct and you mixed it properly 1+4. As for time, I usually fix for 5 minutes when the fixer is fresh and has just been mixed, and then increase the time as it gets used or sits for a few days, oxidizing (covered with plastic wrap of course). I also throw in a cutting of film leader to see how long it takes to clear. Then double that time plus a bit.

    Some swear by 2-step fixing. I have no idea about that; I just fix longer than the average recommended time (and rinse longer too).

    But I've had the same issues as you with one roll (or even part of a roll) being lighter. I think I am going to have to get better tanks and reels (stainless?) that I can invert (using plastic patterson ones currently).

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterSense View Post
    If Arista II is APX400, is there a flavor of Arista film that corresponds to APX100?
    There was, but both are discontinued. A few months ago Freestyle was having a sale on their remaining stock of Arista II 400. I believe it was only 24-exposure 35mm rolls at that time. I don't see any left on their Web site.

    If you're desperate to get your hands on APX 100, I see that Photo Warehouse (aka Ultrafine) has some 100-foot rolls of it left. I can't vouch for its condition, though; it's been a while since Agfa went under, so it's probably expired.

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