Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 69,916   Posts: 1,521,873   Online: 1063
      
Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    57
    Images
    1

    Pre-wash Tmax 100 prior to developer?

    I pre-washed my Tmax 100 MF 120 for 30 seconds with water, when I dumped the wash into a bucket it was very dark/purple. I developed as normal and when the developer was added to that bucket the purple water was cleared (or was it when I added the fix?), either way there was undeveloped material in that pre-wash water. My negs were a little flat. I'm wondering if pre-wash with roll film is not required. I always prewash my 4x5 TriX 320 with great results.

    Is Prewash recommended with sheet or roll film? Would it have mattered, i.e. does the developer "stick" the image to the base, or can that undeveloped latent image be washed away or degraded in 30 seconds of water prewash?
    Robland - Seattle area

    Insert "catch phrase" here...

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    15,911
    hi robland

    i pre wash everything, no matter what the film type and developer, before my film goes
    into the developer. the short time that i used xtol, i stopped prewashing because
    it was recommended not to by kodak. i don't use xtol anymore...
    maybe your image seemed flat because you under developed or under exposed them ...

    john
    Ես այլեւս չի պատասխանելու իմ էլեկտրոնային փոստով
    եթե դուք պետք է ինձ դիմեք ինձ միջոցով իմ կայքը կամ բլոգում

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Live Free or Die
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,348
    Images
    87
    The purple color of the pre-rinse is normal, it's the antihalation dye. There was no emulsion or latent image in your prewash water. Though Kodak doesn't specifically call for a pre-wash with roll film and Xtol, I've been doing it routinely using Xtol and I get good results. The flat negs would be an indication you needed more development time.

  4. #4
    Christopher Walrath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Milton, DE, USA
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    6,980
    Blog Entries
    29
    Images
    19
    Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry9000/4.6.0.167 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/102 UP.Link/6.3.0.0.0)

    Do it or don't do it. Those 'for' say it gets film closer to processing temp. Those against say it blocks absorption of the developer. It's not necessary. Not harmful either. Good luck.
    Thank you.
    CWalrath
    APUG BLIND PRINT EXCHANGE
    DE Darkroom

    "Wubba, wubba, wubba. Bing, bang, bong. Yuck, yuck, yuck and a fiddle-dee-dee." - The Yeti

  5. #5
    ic-racer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Midwest USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    6,129
    Quote Originally Posted by Robland View Post
    I pre-washed my Tmax 100 MF 120 for 30 seconds with water, when I dumped the wash into a bucket it was very dark/purple. I developed as normal and when the developer was added to that bucket the purple water was cleared (or was it when I added the fix?), either way there was undeveloped material in that pre-wash water. My negs were a little flat. I'm wondering if pre-wash with roll film is not required. I always prewash my 4x5 TriX 320 with great results.

    Is Prewash recommended with sheet or roll film? Would it have mattered, i.e. does the developer "stick" the image to the base, or can that undeveloped latent image be washed away or degraded in 30 seconds of water prewash?
    That dye is not light sensitive. Its not part of your latent image. Your negatives were thin because the prewash inhibits the initial development. Increase times by 20% and see how they look. Or just eliminate the pre-wash and keep the time the same.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sarasota, FL
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    921
    And how many film makers suggest prewashing?

    Thought so.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Richmond VA.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    6,737
    I have done both for 120 film and seems the pre-wash does better for me.

    Jeff

  8. #8
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    the villages .centralflorida,USA and Germany
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    6,368
    Images
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Robland View Post
    I pre-washed my Tmax 100 MF 120 for 30 seconds with water, when I dumped the wash into a bucket it was very dark/purple. I developed as normal and when the developer was added to that bucket the purple water was cleared (or was it when I added the fix?), either way there was undeveloped material in that pre-wash water. My negs were a little flat. I'm wondering if pre-wash with roll film is not required. I always prewash my 4x5 TriX 320 with great results.

    Is Prewash recommended with sheet or roll film? Would it have mattered, i.e. does the developer "stick" the image to the base, or can that undeveloped latent image be washed away or degraded in 30 seconds of water prewash?
    As Christoph already said: Do it or don't!

    However if you do it, do it long enough, or you risk uneven development, which is the exact problem presoaking is trying to prevent. Presoaking has to be long enough for the water to evenly soak into the emulsion. In my tests, this was between 3-4 minutes with Kodak and Ilford films. Consequently, don't presoak for less than 5 minutes, or you will risk water spots.

    The other problem is, presoaking does extend the required development time. The developer has a harder time to get to the silver in a swollen emulsion, hence, slightly flat negatives can be the results, unless this was compensated for through an extended development time (10% rough guess).

    my opinion:
    Presoak or not. I think it's a waste of time but doesn't hurt. But, whatever you do, test your films either way, and never switch, because film development is visibly affected by presoak.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com



 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin