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  1. #1

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    Huge differences in Xtol time/temp German, American sheets

    As I was perusing the time/temp suggestions from Kodak for Xtol, I suddenly realized that the German and the American seldom agree! Has anyone else noticed this, or can explain why? The American one is dated March, 2008 so we can probably presume it is up to speed on TMY-2. Yet, there are differences even in Plus and Tri X, especially once out of the 20C temp. I cannot find a date on the German sheet which is often suggested for dilutions higher than the American one.

    I know this cut and paste from a simple xls I did won't format right, but you can probably figure it out.

    20C/68F 21C/70F 24C/75F 27C/80F

    Tri-X, German 6.75 6 4.75 3.75
    Tri-X, English 7 6.25 4.75

    T-Max 400, German 6.5 5.75 4.5 3.5
    T-Max 400, English 6.5 6.75 5.25

    Plus-X, German 5.25 4.75 3.75
    Plus-X, English 8.25 7.5 5.75

    Wouldn't one think that the Great Yellow Father in Rochester would say, "Yo, Berlin! Here's the scoop."

    Any thoughts?

  2. #2

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    How old is the German sheet? If it is before the upgrade of Tri-X and Plus-X (in the early 2000's?) then they might be for the old spec films.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Gray View Post
    How old is the German sheet? If it is before the upgrade of Tri-X and Plus-X (in the early 2000's?) then they might be for the old spec films.
    As I mentioned, I couldn't find a date for the German sheet. But those are some huge differences for Plus and Tri X that have been stable for a few years.

    Here's the link: http://www.kodak.fr/AT/plugins/acrob...Entwickler.pdf

  4. #4
    Lee L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Verizzo View Post
    As I mentioned, I couldn't find a date for the German sheet. But those are some huge differences for Plus and Tri X that have been stable for a few years.

    Here's the link: http://www.kodak.fr/AT/plugins/acrob...Entwickler.pdf
    Document properties
    Created: 12/07/1998
    Modified: 03/05/1999
    Acrobat Distiller 3.0 f r Power Macintosh

    Lee

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee L View Post
    Document properties
    Created: 12/07/1998
    Modified: 03/05/1999
    Acrobat Distiller 3.0 f r Power Macintosh

    Lee
    Thanks, Lee. I was looking for the obvious, you know, like a date printed in the file? Ten year old information? Wow.

    Considering that so many folks look to that German page for guidance, especially for high dilutions, that is really disappointing. Especially that it is still there as a reference.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Verizzo View Post
    Thanks, Lee. I was looking for the obvious, you know, like a date printed in the file? Ten year old information? Wow.

    Considering that so many folks look to that German page for guidance, especially for high dilutions, that is really disappointing. Especially that it is still there as a reference.
    I looked for a date in the text first as well. I think it may be left up as a resource for dilutions greater than 1:1, but that's just a wild guess.

    It also uses the old names for Tri-X and the TMax films, plus emulsion numbers, plus Verichrome Pan, and Acros is missing with other Neopans there. I always took those as clues to its age.

    Lee

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    Did they give contrast index? Or whatever it's called.

    If you think of Agfa they would give some very different times depending on the contrast.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Zentena View Post
    Did they give contrast index? Or whatever it's called.

    If you think of Agfa they would give some very different times depending on the contrast.
    Yes, both the old German language and the newer English language tech bulletins give a range of temperatures, contrast indices, and film speed ratings.

    Lee

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee L View Post
    I looked for a date in the text first as well. I think it may be left up as a resource for dilutions greater than 1:1, but that's just a wild guess.

    It also uses the old names for Tri-X and the TMax films, plus emulsion numbers, plus Verichrome Pan, and Acros is missing with other Neopans there. I always took those as clues to its age.

    Lee
    But a resource with bad information is worse than nothing at all.

    I did notice the Verichrome Pan, but it went right over my head. I have no knowledge of emulsion numbers, so that didn't set off any alarms, either.

    Bottom line: Dump this much mentioned pdf. The Spanish pdf has the American sheet ID of J-109 but seems to have the same times as the German one, w/o the high dilution ones.

    Does anyone have an old American Xtol sheet with high dilution times?

  10. #10

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    My understanding is that Kodak stopped recommending or supporting XTOL dilutions higher than 1+1 some time ago in response to the "XTOL sudden death" problems. Thus, the only high-dilution information you'll find on XTOL will either be hopelessly out of date but official from Kodak or unofficial stuff from users.

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