Brown Toner with Lith?

[Shangheye]

I often read about Bleach and sepia toning of Lith, but I have yet to see anybody mention whether brown toner produces any interesting effects with Lith printing.

I use Brown toner as my sepia toner, and would like to keep it that way if possible, since I now know what I am doing with it, and I like the effects I get when combining it with Selenium toning.

Would it work...or am I off to buy new chemistry :rolleyes:

I would also be interested if anyone has examples or recommended dilutions. I usually use 1+25.

Rgds, Kal

[Travis Nunn]

I've never tried brown toner with lith. Give it a try and let us know how it works out. I look forward to reading about your results.

As far as recommended dilutions, there really there aren't any. I know some people use it at 1:5, I typically dilute 1:19, others, like yourself dilute weaker than I and everything in between. It's whatever you feel works best for you.

[Shangheye]

Thanks Travis. It will be a while before I go back in for a Lith session, since I am way behind on my traditional portfolio at the moment, but I will be definitely trying it. Would be great if Tim Rudman or Wolfgang would give us an idea of their views on the subject...

Rgds, Kal

[psvensson]

I've tried brown toner with lith, and in my experience the results are not very interesting. Kodak Brown Toner evened out and actually cooled the tone of the prints, taking out some of the "lithiness." I believe this was with Oriental Seagull RC paper - results might be differ. But you rarely see mention of brown toner being used by master lithers, and I imagine there's a reason.

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I think the reason why toning lith prints is interesting is that highlights are built differently than with standard chemistry, it's mostly a tone of color, which I believe comes from an oxidation process.

I tried selenium toning a lith print made on Agfa Portriga Rapid the other day, and all of the glorious highlight tones just disappeared, and faded into gray. The black and gray turned, as expected, to a dark copper brown after a while, while the highlights remained very bleak and looking washed out. I suspect brown toner might have a similar effect. I know that when I bleach lith prints and re-develop in sepia, the highlights come back, or most of them anyway, which is why I overexpose those prints in the enlarger by about a half stop. The highlights come back nicer that way. And then it's only after the print has been toned in sepia that the selenium really starts to look good to my eyes.

Trial and error - get your hands wet, Kal, and let us know how it went... Or, I have some Kodak Brown toner at the house, I might try it myself.

- Thomas

[Shangheye]

Thanks for the explanation Thomas. I will try the brown just to see...I just want to avoid yet another chemistry purchase...I don't print Lith regularly enough, and now I am used to Brown and can control it, I would rather not yet another chemistry. If you try it, let me know how you get on! Best, K

[Rich Ullsmith]

Try it on a reject. I'm afraid brown toner would destroy (or mitigate) any tonal splits you achieved during development.

[Guillaume Zuili]

Bleach (weak) then Brown toner. Wash then Selenium.
:-)

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Guillaume to the rescue... I had a feeling you would have tried it before!
What do you see using this process that makes it different from sepia/selenium split?

[Guillaume Zuili]

Weak bleach will give more contrast and enhance highlights. Selenium just to pop the blacks.
I very much like polysulfide. The weaker the better. Then put in a water bath and wait. You see it changing.
Hypo, rinse then selenium for the blacks. Hypo again...bla bla bla.
Difference is in the color range Thomas.
:-)