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  1. #11
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    As all your posts in this thread, particularly post #7 which I quoted in full, have been edited it's rather irrelevant.

    However I was NOT referring to ANY of your comments, I had in fact completely over-looked your post so I apologise for that. I was referring rather to the implicit over simplification that agitation causes grain in Chris' post this is an assumption that has been made by others on APUG before without linking it to increased development.

    Ian

  2. #12
    SchwinnParamount's Avatar
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    Thanks for the help guys. Over-agitation, I get it. On the other hand, it sounds as though my choice of developer and dilution was not un-wise. I posted one of the less contrasty images of a rose in the standard gallery. If I had a flat-bed scanner, I'd have posted the print. Instead, I posted a scan from my Nikon film scanner.

  3. #13
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    FWIW, that is not all that grainy or high in contrast IMO.

    (...and it is overdevelopment via overagitation )
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 06-19-2009 at 09:49 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

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  4. #14
    BradS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchwinnParamount View Post
    Thanks for the help guys. Over-agitation, I get it. On the other hand, it sounds as though my choice of developer and dilution was not un-wise. I posted one of the less contrasty images of a rose in the standard gallery. If I had a flat-bed scanner, I'd have posted the print. Instead, I posted a scan from my Nikon film scanner.

    No. not over agitation. Your agitation is not significantly different from that recommended by Kodak for HC-110....it might explain slightly more contrast but, not bigger grain. ( I say this from 30+ rolls experience with the exact film/developer combo). Most likely....it is just the characteristic of the film that you are un-accustomed to. Next most likely are: 2) over development (like 2F/2F has said) and...3) over exposure.



    from experience, this film is significantly more sensitive to over exposure and over development than Tri-X (for example). To some people, that is a good thing. To others, not so much. More dilute HC-110 will only result in more pronounced grain. If the grain does not appeal to you, you probably will be better off switching to one of the modern alternatives (Tri-X, HP5+, Neopan 400)...as this film simply has different grain than the modern competitors.

    recommendation: Rate it at EI-400 or EI-200 with a yellow/green filter (B+W 060, or Wratten #11). Dev in HC-110B for not more than 8 minutes at 20 degrees C.

    Also, it does not scan well. Real prints look much better.

  5. #15
    SchwinnParamount's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradS View Post
    No. not over agitation. Your agitation is not significantly different from that recommended by Kodak for HC-110....it might explain slightly more contrast but, not bigger grain. ( I say this from 30+ rolls experience with the exact film/developer combo). Most likely....it is just the characteristic of the film that you are un-accustomed to. Next most likely are: 2) over development (like 2F/2F has said) and...3) over exposure.



    from experience, this film is significantly more sensitive to over exposure and over development than Tri-X (for example). To some people, that is a good thing. To others, not so much. More dilute HC-110 will only result in more pronounced grain. If the grain does not appeal to you, you probably will be better off switching to one of the modern alternatives (Tri-X, HP5+, Neopan 400)...as this film simply has different grain than the modern competitors.

    recommendation: Rate it at EI-400 or EI-200 with a yellow/green filter (B+W 060, or Wratten #11). Dev in HC-110B for not more than 8 minutes at 20 degrees C.

    Also, it does not scan well. Real prints look much better.

    What I love about this film is the tones it gave me. I am willing to accept additional grain... as long as my technique optimizes grain size to an "ideal fortepan 400 grain".

    Regarding exposure, I used my F100 in matrix exposure mode (I think... earlier, I had the camera in spot mode. Did I switch?) I think my exposure was on. I will need to go out with another role and do a more thoughtful test.

    So, I developed for 9 minutes which is obviously more than you've done for 30 rolls. My experience tells me that the difference in development time can result in blown out highs (check out the "rose in park" image - standard gallery).

  6. #16
    BradS's Avatar
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    Schwinn, The rose in park photo looks pretty good to me. Actually, really good. I don't know that I'd call that blown highlights. There appears to be detail in the rose petals...It is hard to tell ...is there detail there in the negative? If so, maybe it can be eeked out in the print? The grain too looks about like what I would expect from Forte 400. I think you did fine.

    I too loved the tones...and the spectral response of this film is unlike any thing else I've ever worked with.

    Enjoy.

  7. #17

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    I used to use Forte back when Freestyle sold it rebranded. The very worst combo I ever found in all of film/dev so far is Forte + HC110. Ugly, ugly grain clumps.

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