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  1. #21
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackknight603 View Post
    Thanks for your expansion.

    I've never carried it past one day, but wouldn't you then have to deal with evaporation too?

    I remember trying browned developer once I'd left out overnight, and I seem to remember that it had deteriorated though.

    Probably depends on quantity, air quality, humidity, and temperature.
    That's an interesting side point. After I pour the developer back into the bottle, I always fill it back up to the rim with fresh water to make up for the loss in volume due to evaporation. I don't know if this helps or hurts with anything, but it's a habit of mine.

    From other tests I have seen that small changes in dilution do not affect print densities, and large changes in dilution are compensated by factorial development again. I strongly suggest factorial development for many reasons of change in developer activity. It does wonders for print consistency.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anscojohn View Post
    ********
    You can float Saran Wrap over the developer, smoothing it to get the air bubbles out and you'll be o.k.
    Isn't it easier to pour it back and rinse the tray?
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by RalphLambrecht View Post
    That's an interesting side point. After I pour the developer back into the bottle, I always fill it back up to the rim with fresh water to make up for the loss in volume due to evaporation. I don't know if this helps or hurts with anything, but it's a habit of mine.

    From other tests I have seen that small changes in dilution do not affect print densities, and large changes in dilution are compensated by factorial development again. I strongly suggest factorial development for many reasons of change in developer activity. It does wonders for print consistency.
    Sorry, I have never heard of factorial development; what is it?

    As for filling back up to top, that'll make up for evaporation, but it might *overdo* it when you consider that there is liquid carried out by the prints. Over two or three days it'd definitely be noticeable.

    From my RA-4 tray days, I noticed that about half a fluidounce (~15mL) got carried out with each 8x10 in an, I think, 11x14" tray.

    And, I think that level of dilution, assuming you do it a quart at a time too, would matter because the difference in dilution between a 32 fl. oz. of Dektol 2:1 and 3:1 is only 1-1/3 fluid ounces (although there is, of course 4 fl. oz. more Dektol)

  4. #24
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anscojohn View Post
    ********
    You can float Saran Wrap over the developer, smoothing it to get the air bubbles out and you'll be o.k.
    Thanks, I will try that.

    Steve
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  5. #25
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RalphLambrecht View Post
    Isn't it easier to pour it back and rinse the tray?
    No, not from a large tray if you are using a bathroom with marble floors.

    Steve
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  6. #26
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Must be nice to be rich!
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackknight603 View Post
    Sorry, I have never heard of factorial development; what is it?

    As for filling back up to top, that'll make up for evaporation, but it might *overdo* it when you consider that there is liquid carried out by the prints. Over two or three days it'd definitely be noticeable.

    From my RA-4 tray days, I noticed that about half a fluidounce (~15mL) got carried out with each 8x10 in an, I think, 11x14" tray.

    And, I think that level of dilution, assuming you do it a quart at a time too, would matter because the difference in dilution between a 32 fl. oz. of Dektol 2:1 and 3:1 is only 1-1/3 fluid ounces (although there is, of course 4 fl. oz. more Dektol)

    Factorial development takes care of all of that.

    In factorial development, you watch for the emergence of the medium to dark midtones in the print and time the event. Then, you multiply that time by a factor, typically 4-8x, to calculate your total development time. Changes in developer activity, through exhaustion, dilution, age or temperature changes are easily compensated this way. This works best with FB papers, because the emergence time for RC prints to too fast to accurately time it.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  8. #28

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    With Ansco 130 I place another tray on top of the tray of developer, stacked. I haven't had any issues with 130 for several days this way.

    Mike

  9. #29
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RalphLambrecht View Post
    Factorial development takes care of all of that.

    In factorial development, you watch for the emergence of the medium to dark midtones in the print and time the event. Then, you multiply that time by a factor, typically 4-8x, to calculate your total development time. Changes in developer activity, through exhaustion, dilution, age or temperature changes are easily compensated this way. This works best with FB papers, because the emergence time for RC prints to too fast to accurately time it.
    Factorial development can fail with many modern papers that have incorporated developing agents. As they diffuse outward, they can create a differential development rate that fools you.

    Also, Cl/Br, Cl and Br paper emulsions all develop with different rates. It is sort of like the difference between FB and RC. Pure Chloride or high Chloride papers can even be built to be just about self limiting thereby shutting off development as you continue to try to bring up the image. Instead, fog suddently leaps up at you.

    So, many modern papers are able to play tricks with this tried and true methodology and it may come to the point where it becomes unreliable.

    PE

  10. #30
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Factorial development can fail with many modern papers that have incorporated developing agents. As they diffuse outward, they can create a differential development rate that fools you.

    Also, Cl/Br, Cl and Br paper emulsions all develop with different rates. It is sort of like the difference between FB and RC. Pure Chloride or high Chloride papers can even be built to be just about self limiting thereby shutting off development as you continue to try to bring up the image. Instead, fog suddently leaps up at you.

    So, many modern papers are able to play tricks with this tried and true methodology and it may come to the point where it becomes unreliable.

    PE

    Different developing rates are not an issue. My development factor for factorial development is not constant and changes with papers, developers and even from image to image. I record the factor for each negative to get the same print next time.

    Factorial development relies on the fact that the total development time divided by the emergence time of a certain print tone is relatively constant. This has been the case with all papers I have tried so far. I'm currently working with Ilford papers and it works very reliably with Multigrade IV FB and Warmtone, but it also worked in the past with Agfa, Kodak and some East-European papers. It might not work with others, as you state, but it is well worth a try. I would probably stay away from any paper that does not work with factorial development, because I would miss the consistency of printing with them.

    I have never tested any paper that quit developing. They just keep going until they eventually fog. Especially the midtones get continuously darker with increasing development time.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

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