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  1. #11

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    Murray, you can get propylene glycol at Actrol (11 branches in Queensland). It's used in refrigeration equipment.

  2. #12
    Murray Kelly's Avatar
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    Back from the once a month 'lunch' - Clare Valley offerings :-)
    John - so far my best and most polite response has been 'bugger off, mate'. Maybe Queenslanders aren't so polished as Victorians? No!!!. yes.
    I will ponder the problem. I did read on Wiki about dehydrating solutions with anhydrous CuSO4, easily made from bluestone (or MgSO4 (sec) - slower but perhaps better). Therefore, after the conversion from the salt, remove all water. The oxygen only works on the metol in an aqueous environment.

    Murray

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by gainer View Post
    My little brown bottle did nothing but be brown. How enough oxygen could be trapped in that bottle to kill several grams of metol base, I do not know. Perhaps there is some other mechanism for self destruction. According to Sandy King, the Pyrocat MC has a good lifetime. It does have the ascorbic acid for preservative.
    My MC is two years old, stored in little brown bottles, is dark brown and works just fine...Evan Clarke

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murray Kelly View Post
    ....John - so far my best and most polite response has been 'bugger off, mate'. Maybe Queenslanders aren't so polished as Victorians? No!!!. yes. ............
    Murray
    That's weird. At my local one, they had 4 or 5 Litre cans on the shelf for retail sale. I will phone them and see if they still sell it in such quantities.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murray Kelly View Post
    Back from the once a month 'lunch' - Clare Valley offerings :-)
    John - so far my best and most polite response has been 'bugger off, mate'. Maybe Queenslanders aren't so polished as Victorians? No!!!. yes.
    I will ponder the problem. I did read on Wiki about dehydrating solutions with anhydrous CuSO4, easily made from bluestone (or MgSO4 (sec) - slower but perhaps better). Therefore, after the conversion from the salt, remove all water. The oxygen only works on the metol in an aqueous environment.

    Murray

    Murray;

    I would not use the Copper salt, and the Mg salt may be a bad idea too.

    PE

  6. #16
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    You could try the PFS-3 that I posted elsewhere: 800 ml saturated borax solution, 6 grams ascorbic acid, 15 ml 1% phenidone in glycol, water to 1 liter. It will be self-replenishing for up to 10 rolls, so use it like D-76 and pour it back in the bottle. To make the borax solution, put a pound or more of borax in a 2 liter soft drink bottle, fill it with water at your normal developing temperature, stir it well and decant the amount of clear solution you need. Add water to the borax solution as you use the clear liquid. A pound should make almost 10 liters of saturated solution before it is all dissolved. More than 10 if it happens to be partly pentahydrated borax.
    Gadget Gainer

  7. #17
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    I ask this question politely again:

    Is there any proof of the image structure yielded by this developer formulation? Any sharpness, grain or speed comparisons? If not, then it is just a developer, and may be no better than using Dektol for your film.

    Sorry Patrick, but the question must be asked and asked politely and with respect. But to date, I have seen no proof that this and your other developers are anything but developers, some with long shelf lives.

    PE

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by gainer View Post
    A pound should make almost 10 liters of saturated solution before it is all dissolved. More than 10 if it happens to be partly pentahydrated borax.
    Also keep in mind that the amount of borax in your saturated solution changes greatly with temperature. A saturated solution at 50F will have about 33% less borax in it than one at 68F, and one at 86F will have about 53% more borax in it. You may get 13 liters in the winter, but only 6 in the summer...

    If you can control the temp of your solutions so the you don't have to worry about it, then that's great. My darkroom changes nearly throughout the entire range I mentioned above (55F in the winter to about the low 80s in the hottest part of the summer), so I find it's just so much simpler and much more accurate to measure my borax out on my scale.
    Kirk

    For up from the ashes, up from the ashes, grow the roses of success!

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    If not, then it is just a developer, and may be no better than using Dektol for your film.
    A long time ago, back when I was a teenager in Oregon and before I became a scientist, I used Dektol to develop my film. I used a Kodak Tri-Chem Pack. Dektol for the film developer, and Dektol for the paper developer. It worked! Sure, it was a bit grainy, put it worked!
    Kirk

    For up from the ashes, up from the ashes, grow the roses of success!

  10. #20
    Murray Kelly's Avatar
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    PE, to answer your question only in part, the Phenidone-C-Borax Does work nicely with microfilm but I want to try it with metol in the hope of getting even better gradation of grays. However, that film has no discernible grain so I can't help there but it can always use any help with sharpness. I suspect metol would be an improvement, but at an even lower pH. I have tried Technidol and it goes brown, not pink (?metol?) and has a pH about 8.8 a bit lower than borax. I thought the P-C-Borax looked better. To my eye anyway.
    So far it's all just suspicion. I would like to try some variation on Pat's brew and it will need experimentation, hence my 'need' for the stock metol.
    The P-C-Borax was most encouraging with Copex Rapid but had the disadvantage mentioned above with areas of constant gray - there is a problem with bands forming in places there should be none.
    So, yes, for me it's a way to experiment. I just differ from Patrick by using it stand or semi-stand. That's something I could try with Technidol and diverge hugely from the Kodak engineers' recommendations.

    John-S - I think you are right and I will chase it up - it costs almost $100/4 L. Someone else has 25L for $200 but even if I live to be as old as my father I couldn't justify it for the next 20 years! Maybe some Oz folk might like to help part it out?

    Anyway - my question is mostly answered. It does go 'off' and I will look to another solvent. I am studying MSDS and find there's all kinds of additives in antifreeze if one isn't careful. Some have almost none and others have stuff like disodium phosphate which can't help, and one has borax. I will trawl the auto suppliers and garages and take notes.
    Good night all. 3am.
    Murray

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