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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterSense View Post
    It's important to me that my paper fixer doesn't smell, ...

    It seems to me that ammonium thiosulfate is ammonium
    thiosulfate, so one might as well buy the cheapest fixer
    available. It seems that the only qualities to buy on
    are price, capacity, and keeping ability.
    AFAIK, there is no industry standard for determining
    capacity. There be no standard then specified capacities
    have no meaning. I believe most fixers run at or close to
    60%. Some suppliers may be 'cutting'. Trust the numbers.

    Of course capacity is dependent upon keeping qualities.
    Real world conditions of use are the test of keeping quality.
    Now I ask you, have ANY suppliers provided information as
    to a fixers keeping qualities under actual use conditions. For
    example rapid fixers go bad just sitting unused. And that
    includes sealed concentrates. How bad, how fast?

    Ammonium and sodium thiosulfate, alone, are odorless.
    I'm not in the same rush some are and my volume of
    work is low. So, I use the solid, good for ever
    concentrate, sodium thiosulfate. Dan

  2. #12
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fschifano View Post
    Kodak's Flexicolor Fixer and Replenisher. Cheap as dirt and just as good, if not better than, Ilford's Hypam, Rapid Fixer, or any other B&W rapid fixer on the market.
    It's highly unlikely that Flexicolor fixer is any better than Hypam, but then equally it may be no worse either, unlike a developer the fixing process is in theory to finality, but in practice all rapid fixers are capable of dissolving developed silver causing image bleaching if a negative or print s is left too long. Of course it might well be more economic compared to the smaller sixed bottles of Hypam..

    Ian

  3. #13
    Christopher Walrath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant
    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    Oh, yeah, but not *as* short. Oh, and its capacity is a bit lower.

    -NT
    That's true TF-4's recommended capacity is less than Hypam's at a similar dilution.

    Hypam 24 rolls 35mm film per litre / TF-4 20 rolls of film.
    Hypam 80 10x8 RC prints per litre / TF-4 60 10x8's
    Hypam 40 10x8 FB prints per litre / TF-4 30 10x8's

    The recommended Fix times are identical for papers, and slightly longer for films with TF-4

    Ian
    Only 24 rolls of 35mm? Just asking but it seems it should be more in line with the 8x10 quantity you mentioned of 80 as there is less film to process in a 35mm roll, 24 ct than there is in an 8x10 sheet.
    Thank you.
    -CW

    "Wubba, wubba, wubba. Bing, bang, bong. Yuck, yuck, yuck and a fiddle-dee-dee." - The Yeti

  4. #14
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    There's much higher levels of silver in photographic film, rough in the order of 4 times, so that matches those figures.

    Ian

  5. #15
    Christopher Walrath's Avatar
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    Cool, Ian. Thanks.
    Thank you.
    -CW

    "Wubba, wubba, wubba. Bing, bang, bong. Yuck, yuck, yuck and a fiddle-dee-dee." - The Yeti

  6. #16
    cmo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Walrath View Post
    Only 24 rolls of 35mm? Just asking but it seems it should be more in line with the 8x10 quantity you mentioned of 80 as there is less film to process in a 35mm roll, 24 ct than there is in an 8x10 sheet.
    Are we all talking about the same thing?

    24 rolls of film in 1 liter working solution which was made by diluting a concentrate 1+4 means that 1 liter of concentrate is good for 120 rolls. For T-grain films it's a lot less. of course.

  7. #17
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Yes 1 litre of Hypam/Ilford Rapid fixer concentrate makes 5 litres of working strength fixer at 1+4, so at 24 films per litre will fix 120 rolls films in total. You can dilute 1+9, double the fix times and you get half the capacity per litre of working strength solution. I regularly process those numbers of films in Hypam, and have done since the early 70's with no problems whatso ever.

    On the other hand a litre of TF-4 concentrate is diluted 1+3 so will only process 80 rolls in total, 50% less.

    Ian

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancqu View Post
    AFAIK, there is no industry standard for determining
    capacity. There be no standard then specified capacities
    have no meaning. I believe most fixers run at or close to
    60%. Some suppliers may be 'cutting'. Trust the numbers.

    Of course capacity is dependent upon keeping qualities.
    Real world conditions of use are the test of keeping quality.
    Now I ask you, have ANY suppliers provided information as
    to a fixers keeping qualities under actual use conditions. For
    example rapid fixers go bad just sitting unused. And that
    includes sealed concentrates. How bad, how fast?

    Ammonium and sodium thiosulfate, alone, are odorless.
    I'm not in the same rush some are and my volume of
    work is low. So, I use the solid, good for ever
    concentrate, sodium thiosulfate. Dan
    There is no industry standard, that said, Ilford tends to use conservative numbers as quality was always the goal. Some other companies (I don't know which ones) may be less conservative in that economics is the goal.

    The best way is to use the clip test, start by always using clear bottles, 1L pop bottles are good for fixer. First look at it, if there is anything floating in it, discard and make fresh.

    Put a small amount in a tray or dish, clip the tongue off a 35mm roll, and put one drop of fixer on the emulsion side, wait 30 seconds, you will see a definite spot starting to form, drop in your dish of fixer and time how long it takes for the spot to disappear. This is your clear time. Do this with fresh fixer and write down the clear time on the bottle. Each session you do the test again, when it takes twice as long, discard and make fresh. You can determine your own fixing time, it's at least double the clearing time.

    As for shelf life, Ilford says ....

    2 years for a full bottle of concentrate...
    6 Months for an opened bottle of concentrate...
    6 Months for a full bottle of working strength...
    1 Month for a partly used bottle of working strength....

    I would assume that you can use the same techniques as for developer to keep the bottles full.
    Paul Schmidt
    See my Blog at http://clickandspin.blogspot.com

    The greatest advance in photography in the last 100 years is not digital, it's odourless stop bath....

  9. #19

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    The clip test as described is perfect for determining both the fixing time for fresh fixer and for assessing when the fixer should be discarded. However there is one crucial factor missing. The type of film used for the initial test should be the same for all subsequent tests. Different films show different clearing times. Test with something like TMax and you're looking at 3 - 5 minutes clearing time with fresh rapid fixer. Foma films can clear in as little as 60 seconds.
    Frank Schifano

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by fschifano View Post
    The clip test as described is perfect for determining both the fixing time for fresh fixer and for assessing when the fixer should be discarded. However there is one crucial factor missing. The type of film used for the initial test should be the same for all subsequent tests. Different films show different clearing times. Test with something like TMax and you're looking at 3 - 5 minutes clearing time with fresh rapid fixer. Foma films can clear in as little as 60 seconds.
    You are correct of course.
    Paul Schmidt
    See my Blog at http://clickandspin.blogspot.com

    The greatest advance in photography in the last 100 years is not digital, it's odourless stop bath....

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